Velocity changes: Changes to status credits

[Velocity Frequent Flyer]

Hrm I've done a few calculations and I'm not entirely sure it's a step forward now. One thing I don't like -- this now makes the program even more of a carbon copy of QFF. Really, couldn't they have been a little moar unique?

Please bare in mind that what has happened over the weekend is by no means our full relaunch.
The website development work over the weekend was necessary to implement a range of product changes of which some you now know, and some that won't appear until later in the year.

Hi someone-from-VA, is there going to be a decent points calculator so that we can see what a given flight will earn (in both points and SCs)? If there is, please make sure it will also calculate earn rates for flights with partner carriers -- this is something that has been a source of frustration for me with the QFF points calculators.

Noted.

 

[777]

Being based on miles flown, the SC now makes it much easier to requal for gold (and I'm assuming Platinum), but I can't say I'm a fan of the implementation. In fact, I'd say that I've been ripped off with the way they've recalculated pre-existing status points.

I fly lots of Syd-Mel and Syd-Bne legs, almost all on the cheap fares, which had been accumulating between 350 and say 700 SC's. The recalculation seems to have rounded up to the next even hundred, then divided by 100 - so I've got plenty of 4,5,6 & 7 SC buckets in there now. However, under the new miles based system, these should all be worth 10 SC's; with the occassional full-fare flight worth 20 points.

For me, the net effect is that I feel as though I've been short changed.

Congrats Virgin, you've just treated me like Qantas does. I guess that's what you wanted though, isn't it.

Read back what you wrote and explain how you are shortchanged.

That value of Status Credits has been simply changed by a factor of a hundred. So, 30,000 SC's under the old system are 300 under the new one.

Your status credits have been ROUNDED UP and then converted. Which means that you should actually be marginally better off than you were before and the re-qual guidelines have been REDUCED.

You might feel as though you have been short changed because the old system is less generous to you than the new system but compared to where you were relative to reaching the next level of status you are most likely actually ahead.

You are comparing the old system with the new system and finding that you will be better off going forward under the new one. However, where you were under the old system has actually been (marginally) improved [unless you are someone who was aiming to hit silver at 20,000 status credits in the first half of next year].

 

[markis10]

I agree with the above, there is no point complaining about what you would have got in the past under the new system, there is no retrospective credit, at least they have given you more than what was promised in the past with the changes!

 

[Velocity Frequent Flyer]

Being based on miles flown, the SC now makes it much easier to requal for gold (and I'm assuming Platinum), but I can't say I'm a fan of the implementation. In fact, I'd say that I've been ripped off with the way they've recalculated pre-existing status points.

I fly lots of Syd-Mel and Syd-Bne legs, almost all on the cheap fares, which had been accumulating between 350 and say 700 SC's. The recalculation seems to have rounded up to the next even hundred, then divided by 100 - so I've got plenty of 4,5,6 & 7 SC buckets in there now. However, under the new miles based system, these should all be worth 10 SC's; with the occassional full-fare flight worth 20 points.

For me, the net effect is that I feel as though I've been short changed.

Congrats Virgin, you've just treated me like Qantas does. I guess that's what you wanted though, isn't it.

Not sure why you believe you've been short changed, as we have (and you've noted) that we have rounded up your 4,5,6 SC trips to be now 10 SC (for a discount fare, and 20 SC for a full fare).

PM us your velocity number and we can give you a personalised answer by looking into your account.

Also not sure what you mean with your last comment. The work that we have done within AFF over the past 6 to 12 months would suggest otherwise?

 

[antycbr]

Con's

• Some long haul flights don't earn as much as they used to. Case in point: DUB-AUH. I previously earnt 56 SCs (under the converted calculation rate), I will now earn 30 SCs. I suspect this is fairer, but there's nothing that says I'm required to like it..!

I agree this is a change but it's definitely fairer. For example, you could earn Silver straight up on a single round trip to LHR in discount Y flight on Etihad, I'm pretty sure that was not economically viable for Velocity.

 

[leemin]

Read back what you wrote and explain how you are shortchanged.

That value of Status Credits has been simply changed by a factor of a hundred. So, 30,000 SC's under the old system are 300 under the new one.

Your status credits have been ROUNDED UP and then converted. Which means that you should actually be marginally better off than you were before and the re-qual guidelines have been REDUCED.

You might feel as though you have been short changed because the old system is less generous to you than the new system but compared to where you were relative to reaching the next level of status you are most likely actually ahead.

You are comparing the old system with the new system and finding that you will be better off going forward under the new one. However, where you were under the old system has actually been (marginally) improved [unless you are someone who was aiming to hit silver at 20,000 status credits in the first half of next year].

allitsab, at first I thought the same as you. One SYD-MEL flight in my history has converted to just 5 SC's! However, I agree with 777. After further calculations I realised that I'm actaully proportionately much closer to achieving status (as a student though, still a while off - want to allow SC donations between AFF members DJ? :mrgreen.

The new earning rates are better in my opinion, it's just not retrospective. I'm doubting whether anybody would actually be worse off.

 

[StevePER]

I like it...

• I like the 12 month rolling qualification period - I think this is much fairer than an arbitrary renewal date.
• I like the status credits. It better rewards longer flights. And I no longer get punished for traveling on a good corporate rate.

Based on the last 12 months, I should be about 40% better off under the new system. If they calculated the past 12 months based on distance traveled I would easily be back to silver. It would have been good if they did this retrospectively, but overall I'm very happy with the changes.

 

[allitsab]

Read back what you wrote and explain how you are shortchanged.

...

You are comparing the old system with the new system and finding that you will be better off going forward under the new one. However, where you were under the old system has actually been (marginally) improved [unless you are someone who was aiming to hit silver at 20,000 status credits in the first half of next year].

True, I am comparing old agains the new, but the fact is that my requal period now includes several flights that are undervalued under the new system.

For exmaple, lets say I book a $59 flight Syd-Bne now - I get 10 SC's for it.

Under the old system, I would have recieved 59*7=413 SC's - which has now been rounded down to 5 (roundup(413)=500/100=5) - however, for that same flight now, I pick up 10 SC's.

My issue is that, for me, many such flights are included in my requal period; and I now have to work much harder to requal than I did previously, despite the improved earn on my flights to go in the requal period.

 

[markis10]

True, I am comparing old agains the new, but the fact is that my requal period now includes several flights that are undervalued under the new system.

For exmaple, lets say I book a $59 flight Syd-Bne now - I get 10 SC's for it.

Under the old system, I would have recieved 59*7=413 SC's - which has now been rounded down to 5 (roundup(413)=500/100=5) - however, for that same flight now, I pick up 10 SC's.

My issue is that, for me, many such flights are included in my requal period; and I now have to work much harder to requal than I did previously, despite the improved earn on my flights to go in the requal period.

So under the old system your upcoming flights would have got 5SC in the new format but will now get 10 SC and you feel short-changed????? Sure the old flights that you have done were worth less, but you still have not explained how you need to work harder using the $59 example, now if most of your flights were PE in the past I would understand!

 

[777]

True, I am comparing old agains the new, but the fact is that my requal period now includes several flights that are undervalued under the new system.

For exmaple, lets say I book a $59 flight Syd-Bne now - I get 10 SC's for it.

Under the old system, I would have recieved 59*7=413 SC's - which has now been rounded down to 5 (roundup(413)=500/100=5) - however, for that same flight now, I pick up 10 SC's.

My issue is that, for me, many such flights are included in my requal period; and I now have to work much harder to requal than I did previously, despite the improved earn on my flights to go in the requal period.

Sorry, but that makes no sense.

You keep the equivalent to what you would have got under the old system -- actually slightly more -- relative to the new tier levels.

You get better earning on the remaining flights in the year than you would have before.

The requal targets remain the same (silver) or reduced (gold)

Why do you need to work harder than you did before to requalify?

 

[leemin]

True, I am comparing old agains the new, but the fact is that my requal period now includes several flights that are undervalued under the new system.

For exmaple, lets say I book a $59 flight Syd-Bne now - I get 10 SC's for it.

Under the old system, I would have recieved 59*7=413 SC's - which has now been rounded down to 5 (roundup(413)=500/100=5) - however, for that same flight now, I pick up 10 SC's.

My issue is that, for me, many such flights are included in my requal period; and I now have to work much harder to requal than I did previously, despite the improved earn on my flights to go in the requal period.

Under the old system you were hypothetically 0.021% (413/20000) of the way from Red to Silver with that flight. Under the adjusted system you are 0.02% (5/250) of the higher first-time-qualifying rate of Silver (250 SC). So, assuming you already have status, you will be proportionally better off.

 

[docjames]

It seems to proportionately be more rewarding to do short haul than long haul. Given the majority of VA's routes (ex-DJ) are domestic, this seems an appropriate thing, but still with the ability to earn on their long haul.

IMO, QF is the opposite, especially in J/F. Easier earn long haul premium cabin, less lucrative short haul.

Will be interesting to see how it goes and what turns out to be better / worse.

 

[notzac]

Rolling 12 month period to upgrade your status tier -- frustrating for me right now (due to what I posted above), but v clever as it rewards your last 12 months of flying (irrespective of when your previous qualification period was)
AND
The above will also mean that qualification periods will change -- I don't see this as a bad thing, just a thing to be aware of

Just thought of a gotcha with the above. Because it's a 12 month rolling upgrade qualification which then changes your qualification period .. this means that you can't do a stack of flying at the start of one qualification year and have status for nearly two years.

I think? Or have I got this totally wrong? (given the lack of caffeine in my system, it wouldn't surprise me greatly )

 

[allitsab]

Not sure why you believe you've been short changed, as we have (and you've noted) that we have rounded up your 4,5,6 SC trips to be now 10 SC (for a discount fare, and 20 SC for a full fare).

PM us your velocity number and we can give you a personalised answer by looking into your account.

Also not sure what you mean with your last comment. The work that we have done within AFF over the past 6 to 12 months would suggest otherwise?

Please disregard my last statement as emotion boiling over. It still feels a little that way though.

Happy to discuss specifics.

My review date is 30 April. Since then, I've flown 6 legs (8 if you count 2 over the weekend that aren't in the system yet) - for a total of 4831 points (under the old scheme). That equates to 9.7% of the way to Gold requal.

Now, as you've all correctly noted, the points given to me for these flights under the recalculation is improved - 51 points or 12.75% of the way to requal. However, had my review date coincided with the points re-jig, these same flights would have earnt me 70 points, or 17.5% of the way to requal.

So, yes, I acknowledge that the path to requal/qual is easier. However, no, I do not agree that the recalculation of points has been applied fairly for existing SC's.

 

[Keith009]

Based on my staple MEL-SFO in PE, it seems heaps easier to achieve/retain Velocity Gold than QFF Gold. I get a greater number of SCs on Velocity (150 each way rather than 110 on QFF) and the number of SCs required is also lower. Better earn rate for us PE flyers on Velocity. Win!

Can't wait to see SC requirement for the new Plat tier... hopefully it'll be a corresponding win.

 

[connieguy]

DJ Status Credit earning table:



Silver = 250 to gain then 200 to maintain,
Gold = 500 to gain then 400 to maintain,
Platinum = ???

Qantas Status Credit earning table:



Silver = 300 to obtain, 250 to maintain,
Gold = 700 to obtain then 600 to maintain,
Platinum = 1,400 to obtain then 1,200 to maintain.
Platinum Plus = ???

Interesting DJ has a column for Y and Y+ while QF lumps Y and Y+ in the same earning column. Quite a few other changes as well.

 

[777]

My review date is 30 April. Since then, I've flown 6 legs (8 if you count 2 over the weekend that aren't in the system yet) - for a total of 4831 points (under the old scheme). That equates to 9.7% of the way to Gold requal.

Hang on, your review date is at the end of April and you're complaining? You've got 10/12 months under the new much more generous system! From you're earlier comments i thought you must be up for requal next month.

So, yes, I acknowledge that the path to requal/qual is easier. However, no, I do not agree that the recalculation of points has been applied fairly for existing SC's.

And you would make it more fairly how? You have got exactly what you've been promised, you had it rounded up, you've got 10 months where you will get much more generous SC earns than you would have otherwise and you've had the goal you need to reach to re-qualify reduced by 20%.

I'm really, really confused.

 

[allitsab]

And you would make it more fairly how? You have got exactly what you've been promised, you had it rounded up, you've got 10 months where you will get much more generous SC earns than you would have otherwise and you've had the goal you need to reach to re-qualify reduced by 20%.

I'm really, really confused.

I did say that I acknowledge that going forward it will be a piece of cake to qualify.

However, I also feel that if you're going to revalue things, then you need to revalue all of the existing SC's in the system as well, rather than throw in some alternate way of calculating things that doesn't line up with (and therefore value the same) the existing points.

I also suspect that SC's will eventually be used to achieve lifetime status levels - in which case it becomes very important to recalc retrospectively using the same method.

 

[ric_melb]

Does this change mean that we will see QF009 want to change his screen name to VA011?

Hope I have the VA flight number correct.

 

[777]

IHowever, I also feel that if you're going to revalue things, then you need to revalue all of the existing SC's in the system as well, rather than throw in some alternate way of calculating things that doesn't line up with (and therefore value the same) the existing points.

The point is the old status credits WEREN'T REVALUED. They were honoured as promised and carried over into the new system. It does add up with the existing points. You are suggesting the reverse, that they go back and retrospectively change all the Status points you have ever been awarded based on criteria that did not apply when you bought them. This would be very unfair!

As for Lifetime status, there's a range of ways they could calculate the difference between old and new SC's but going back and changing all the rules retrospectively is probably the worse way to do it.