VA to HKG from Jul 5 2017, ex MEL

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Looks like the flight times for this flight have changed. Just heard from VA that my booking over Easter has changed from 1:35am departure to 11am. Means missing a whole day in HKG on an already very short weekend away :(
Ask them for a date change? Which is effectively what it is already...
 
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BITRE has just released its October 2017 international airline statistics that disclose VA carried 3826 passengers from MEL to HKG (northbound) for a load factor of 63.2 per cent. Southbound, perhaps due to migrants coming to Oz but also maybe as summer here was relatively close, there were 4252 passengers carried for a percentage of seats occupied of 70.4. There were 22 flights operated in each direction so the route suffered in that month from the lack of a daily or better frequency, as this omission restricts flexibility: if one has to cancel one day, there may not be a flight the next.

Northbound, VA's loads were an average of 174 passengers a flight; southbound from HKG, 193. This compares to the 275 per flight seat capacity that VA uses. In theory this should mean 'wide open' reward availability on many VA HKG flights - perhaps even in J.

Do the A332s have a 'secret' rest area above three rows of passenger seats for cabin crew or do they block off half a dozen Y seats? I've only ever been on these planes to and from PER. not HKG.

In contrast QF load figures were respectively 85.6 and 89.7 per cent while for CX the applicable percentages were 78 and 89.8.

QF carried 32441 outbound and 33946 inbound (i.e. southbound) passengers on all its Oz- HKG - OZ routes in October 2017 while market leader on the route, CX, respectively had 72549 and 83525 passengers.

CX had a total of 343 flights between Oz and HKG (divide by two to get the each way figure with one over) and QF 126.

Hong Kong Airways carried 3695 and 3993 respectively on its 21 flights in each direction.

The figures do not disclose anything about the crucial information re yields but some might surmise that when these HKG flights was not daily, VA has struggled on the route against QF but more particularly against CX.

I lack financial information and yes, October is not the peak holiday month like Christmas or January, but it's probable that this route will cost VA many millions of dollars in losses.

Just what sort of 'feed' (connecting passengers) it is obtaining from shareholder HNA Group would be interesting to know.
 
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Have had a duplicate HKG-MEL appear in my booking, and on the VA site showing same time, on other apps showing a 25m schedule change (new 1025 dep vs old 1000).

The return leg not changed.

Also weirdly had a "change" tagged on a VS booking HKG-LHR (using VA points) but no time/date change etc.

All a bit weird. Maybe one for the VA website thread.
 
Do the A332s have a 'secret' rest area above three rows of passenger seats for cabin crew or do they block off half a dozen Y seats? I've only ever been on these planes to and from PER. not HKG.

Crew rest area for the VA HKG A332 is the curtained off 6 seats at the back of the plane
 
Crew rest area for the VA HKG A332 is the curtained off 6 seats at the back of the plane

For cabin crew the above applies, for the pilots it’s a curtained off business class seat.


Interesting statistics Melburnian1, thanks for the post. Management are somewhat transparent to us about the actual numbers on flights.
 
For cabin crew the above applies, for the pilots it’s a curtained off business class seat.

Interesting statistics Melburnian1, thanks for the post. Management are somewhat transparent to us about the actual numbers on flights

AviatorInsight, thanks - with a total of seven seats unavailable for revenue passengers, total capacity seat wise for the A332 on the HKG route is effectively 268 not the 275 that Seat Guru and other similar websites consistently show. This small reduction also applies to many other widebody aircraft if they don't have "secret" rest areas for onboard staff. So the load factors by percentage are a tiny bit better than the published BITRE percentages suggest.

As you can see, with international flights everything is published regarding passenger loadings - although for a month, not individual flight loadings. No doubt some flights would have been full or very close to it even in October with the percentages above for overall seat utilisation, and others not so well patronised. The lag from the end of the month to publication is normally at least two months: some airlines would be much slower to provide data and may have to be asked more than once, although airports would be a subsidiary source.

Since you or anyone else can ask check in staff how many are on a flight, or look up electronic or other documents, and passengers can if they wish walk through the cabins and count, or even do that at the boarding gate, I'm a tad mystified why you'd say 'management is somewhat transparent.'

Am I correct to assume that you mean that "they" tell you say a week after the end of a month how the loadings, overall, are going? That might also be when they submit the figures to BITRE.

It's good information - I wish that the same was published for surface transport by route in each state on a regular basis.

The December and January figures should be better, but November probably relatively low, but as mentioned it's the yield per seat and in total that the managements care about, as would we if we were running a private enterprise passenger transport organisation.

All other things such as economic performance being equal (a brave assumption), VA's change to a daily frequency on the MEL - HKG - MEL route (with the different departure and arrival times not varying greatly by day) can only help to boost passenger numbers over time provided the airline and its shareholders persist with a route like this despite the inevitable significant startup losses (and the rising cost of aviation turbine fuel that must be the subject of many management discussions, not just at VA).

The other important factor is that irrespective of mode or route, prospective passengers (and booking means such as in airlines' case travel agents) can take months to "know" that a carrier is now an option on a route. If one asked in Collins or Pitt Sts 'which airlines fly nonstop from Australia to Hong Kong?', CX and QF would be likely to be frequently named, but VA rarely and HX almost never (unless in the latter case one came across some Hong Kongers to ask). This is largely a function of the two last mentioned being recent entrants.
 
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Nobody in HKG knows about VA. They need to do more local marketing in HKG to get bookings there.

Yet the load factor was greater from there, and similar proportionally with other operators including Cathay (though CX dominated all others in extent of proportion out of HKG against MEL).

That would suggest marketing in HKG isn't likely a major weakness; more the low volume that it and the other new entrant shared is more likely both due to their 'new' status and lower frequencies at that time.
 
Yet the load factor was greater from there, and similar proportionally with other operators including Cathay (though CX dominated all others in extent of proportion out of HKG against MEL).

That would suggest marketing in HKG isn't likely a major weakness; more the low volume that it and the other new entrant shared is more likely both due to their 'new' status and lower frequencies at that time.

Both isochronous and odysseus may be correct.

One expects southbound loadings over a year (not necessarily each and every month) to be higher than northbound due to Australia receiving more settling migrants than we have Australian citizens leaving our shores 'permanently.'
 
I'm a tad mystified why you'd say 'management is somewhat transparent.'

Am I correct to assume that you mean that "they" tell you say a week after the end of a month how the loadings, overall, are going? That might also be when they submit the figures to BITRE.

It's good information - I wish that the same was published for surface transport by route in each state on a regular basis.

Yes, with information like that regularly available, the company seem to think it's doing better than it actually is. This is conveyed to us through email updates and the information given is no where near what you have provided, more a case of "everything is going really really well on our new MEL - HKG service".
 
Yes, with information like that regularly available, the company seem to think it's doing better than it actually is. This is conveyed to us through email updates and the information given is no where near what you have provided, more a case of "everything is going really really well on our new MEL - HKG service".

AviatorInsight, the biggest positive is that the move to a daily frequency after slots were secured at HKG will really help to boost patronage.

I reckon many of we travellers love a daily or better frequency, irrespective of mode, as it gives more certainty. Initially operating a less than daily frequency (with a mix of day or night flights thrown in for good measure) was hopeless and a disincentive to patronise VA.

Quite a few of the newer Oz - mainland China routes to secondary Chinese cities such as WUH have a twice or thrice weekly frequency, but the difference is that the Chinese airline usually has at least a daily from another mainland Chinese city such as PVG, so while at a cost of some extra hours' travel, they can often get you to and from Oz on the same night or day.
 
I've done this route a few times now, always less filled than when I used to fly CX. Pretty good % of securing a whole centre row as WP. While I've been choosing VA just to show some support, my only hope is they do twice daily so I can have red-eyes in both directions.

I hope VA is looking to do SYD-HKG as well. If that happens, they can have one flying MEL/SYD-HKG with AM departure and one doing a Red-eye and the same return. At least with a DOM connection, I can fly red-eyes both ways.

The situation is not ideal atm as I waste 1 day flying to HKG, I am happy to put up with it to show support as I really want this route to work but I can only do it for so long before jumping somewhere else.
 
Have had a duplicate HKG-MEL appear in my booking, and on the VA site showing same time, on other apps showing a 25m schedule change (new 1025 dep vs old 1000).

The return leg not changed.

Also weirdly had a "change" tagged on a VS booking HKG-LHR (using VA points) but no time/date change etc.

All a bit weird. Maybe one for the VA website thread.

Email received today asking me to confirm new flight time of 1000 (was 1025). Looks like i mis-read it earlier and the move is the other direction.

The daytime outbound is excellent for this trip (family holiday travel) although I can understand a regular on the route wanting to maximise "in HK" time would was both overnight.

Having alternate options ex-SYD and ex-MEL (ie. on day and one night) would be good for options for daytime and nighttime travel in both directions, plus presumably allow decent fleet utilisation. Slot availability might be problematic?
 
When is VA going to code share on VS's HKG-LHR flights?

Probably won't happen seeing that VA already codeshares on EY & SQ flights to LHR.
 
Should help fill some pretty empty planes....
VA are apparently running the ruler over this route - hope they stick it out but need a strong uptick in PAX.
Already?

Don't get me wrong, I love VA, but they can't seem to make much work at all in terms of expansion.
 
Should help fill some pretty empty planes....
VA are apparently running the ruler over this route - hope they stick it out but need a strong uptick in PAX.

That seems rather premature if you ask me.
 
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For comparison sake, just roughly. How does HKG loads compare to VA first year flying into AUH or LAX (as v Australia).

Maybe they just need to ride throgh a tough 18 months
 
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