USA Visa - Moral Turpitude

[geroeg]

Hi all, I've been reading many threads regarding entry into the united states and visa eligibility. My question is regarding the ESTA question about moral turpitude, and visas in general for law-breakers. What I'm ultimately stuck on is: a) whether to answer yes or no b) what they have access to regarding my history c) should I apply for an online waiver first or go straight to a normal visa I can identify my crimes as moral turpitude, but I don't want to draw attention to them if I don't need to. On the same token, I don't want to be turned away at the airport. But from what I'm seen, people are being denied for a lot less than what I've done. Here's the story... I'm 19 years old - going on 20. My family and I want to go on holiday at Christmas this year. I went to the USA in 2007. In 2008 I was arrested. in February 2009 (this year) I was found guilty of approximately 17 charges of obtaining property by deception, theft, and manufacturing fake ID. All charges are related to one crime and it will be the first and last crime I commit. I received no recorded conviction, and I'm currently serving a 1 year order of monitoring and psychologist visits. The corrections centre has indicated that they'll have no problem signing a form allowing me to go on holiday as I have been co-operative and have little conditions on my order. The wrap sheet sounds awful but I'm paying my dues and the judge could see the unique circumstances regarding this case. As I was looking into the Victoria police website about a police certificate / history, it says that Victoria has no spent or expired system, and it will show everything including crimes for which you received no conviction for - at least for the person applying for it. My question... How do I go about this? I'm quite certain I'll be instantly denied, so is it necessary that I bring this up? Will they be able to see it if I don't? What kind of risk am I running of airport deportation - do they have any checks at the airport that they couldn't do with the waiver form? In my eyes it's fairly obvious I'll be denied, so I'm wondering what if I wing it. I have no intention of doing any crime in the US.. it's just a shame that I did something stupid when I was 18 to make quick money and it's going to follow me around forever. Thanks.

 

[Dave Noble]

Hi

Welcome to AFF

Given that you were arrested of such crimes, then you need to apply for a B1/B2 visa and , as you say, would be unlikely to be approved at the moment

The only way you could enter is by lying on the form and then not getting found out; this has the real risk that you could be deported on arrival and then have extreme difficulty getting a visa to enter the USA in the future

Dave

 

[straitman]

geroeg,

Welcome to AFF.

As Dave says the probability of you being granted a Visa at the moment is slim at best. I would suggest you to serve your dues, wait until it is history and then do an open and honest application which explains the whole story.

I definitely would not 'wing it' as you suggest as they would not be very easy to get on with if they found out and may even ban you permanently.

 

[geroeg]

Thanks for the advice. As it's a family trip I don't think taking a risk will be in anyone's interest. It wouldn't be nice spending the day being interrogated, then sent to jail, or sent straight back with a permanent ban in hand.

I've had a look at the visa form itself which you need to fill out before visiting the embassy. It seems to be pretty full-on but it's not very bad in relation to crime. I guess the grilling will come with the interview.

I'll get all of the paperwork I can together including my police record first and then I will make an appointment. I'll be as nice as I can. If they're willing to overlook my past troubles there's a few promising signs..

eg; It's a family holiday. We've been to the US recently - and we're doing an almost identical trip this time (New York, LA, Disneyland). 2 small children are coming.

I however don't hold very high hopes as not only do the charges look bad on paper, but the website mentioned that it is unlikely that the embassy will sign a waiver nor likely will it be accepted by the US office within 5 years of the crime/sentencing.

Really kicking myself I'll let you know in some weeks how it goes.

 

[Dave Noble]

Good luck.

I think that you are taking the sensible approach; getting deported could mar the rest of the family's trip plus you could end up with a long term exclusion from the USA

It is worth a try and see whether they will accept you application; other than $145, you have nothing to lose trying and , if you do fail, may at least be able to get an idea from them when you might be able to apply successfully

Do post back and relate the outcome if you can

Dave

 

[fortymilliondaggers]

if you do fail, may at least be able to get an idea from them when you might be able to apply successfully

Apparently they won't give advice on this sort of stuff.

 

[toowongman]

Hi geroeg
I've got 3 x defrauding the Commonwealth, 2 years suspended. No hope of US entry. And now that I've applied for the visa and failed, they know who I am. Even if I happen to land in the US by accident (e.g. refuelling stop between Sydney and Vancouver), here comes trouble. When it comes to other countries with visa waivers, I tick 'no' for criminal activities and take my chances.

It is unfortunate, as one can make some bad decisions in the past, pay the penalty, then work hard, be a model citizen, pay your taxes, do volunteer work, give to charity, have great references from influential people... but you've still got that mark from the past. Such is life.

Don't stress, there are many other wonderful places where you can have a family holiday.

 

[geroeg]

Sorry to hear toowongman. It's a shame though when it's the city you like and not just the places in it. If I'm denied there'll always be that wonder if I could have gone as planned if I put no. But logically it's not a good way to do it.

Question: Say I'm refused... I heard there's alternative routes. eg; go to canada, then come through the USA via train? Is this 'travel visa' as strict?

I'm not sure where else to start. Paris and the disneyland there could be nice...

 

[toowongman]

Question: Say I'm refused... I heard there's alternative routes. eg; go to canada, then come through the USA via train? Is this 'travel visa' as strict?
I'm not sure where else to start. Paris and the disneyland there could be nice...

The train is an interesting idea. I had considered riding the "Adirondack" from Montreal to NYC, as the worst that could happen would be being sent back to Canada after a night in a hole somewhere. But I'm not a gambler, so the expense of trying it isn't worth it for me. Plus, I can imagine Amtrak or whoever has to submit a manifest to the US DOHS before departure just like the airlines do, so you would be denied boarding anyway. Toowongman out.

 

[Dave Noble]

Sorry to hear toowongman. It's a shame though when it's the city you like and not just the places in it. If I'm denied there'll always be that wonder if I could have gone as planned if I put no. But logically it's not a good way to do it.

Question: Say I'm refused... I heard there's alternative routes. eg; go to canada, then come through the USA via train? Is this 'travel visa' as strict?

I'm not sure where else to start. Paris and the disneyland there could be nice...

If you are refused a visa , then you cannot legally enter the country at all. There are passport checks using other modes of entry than just being unable to do this trip

Paris might well be another option

Being refused a visa could be annoying, but being deported from a country could cause a lot more issues in the future

Dave

 

[possumoz]

Moral Turpitude...is that like paint thinner made from French mushrooms??

:shock: *ducks and runs*
- sorry just couldn't resist (too many early morning java's methinks)