Uberx Airport Pickups Not Illegal It Seems

[yohy?!]

Interesting story on lateline at 1030: odd citizen vigilante decides to booksan UberX at SYD domestic pickup while cameras are rolling.

Poor guy rolls up (prior to attending a funeral) and is detained. AFP attend and take particulars but arrest is later reversed as no Commonwealth offence was committed.

Interesting - a little too ACA for my taste but may have done more harm than good to the taxi lobby.

 

[cmon0005]

I'd rather go in that guys nice new clean prius than most of the beat up cough heaps the taxi drivers use. personally I haven't used the service but I don't mind them being around to put competitive pressure on the taxi industry.
I've had 2 syd trips in a week so 4 taxis to /from airport 1 taxi had dirty cab with smelly driver and metal on metal brakes, then another one the seatbelt didn't work properly and forced my colleague to sit in the middle seat next to me.
and no these weren't one off's many times the taxi vehicles, the drivers or both have been dodgy /unsafe..

 

[medhead]

Howarth is a complete knob. Not to mention showing a heap of Uber black cars and calling them uberX. The guy should go back to the UK if he isn't even going to bother learning Australia law.

 

[jsoprano]

AFP attend and take particulars but arrest is later reversed as no Commonwealth offence was committed.

I think (and anyone please feel free to correct me) the underlying issue in this case is that the AFP attended, as the international airports fall into their responsibility, and they enforce Commonwealth laws and regulations. Would the NSW Police attend it would probably have ended differently, as I assume these things are regulated in state legislation.

Anyway, I acknowledge the issues around insurance, registration etc., but with the taxi industry being in such a mess and clearly one of the least customer-focussed industries, I welcome anything that improves competitiveness and service levels.

 

[medhead]

I think (and anyone please feel free to correct me) the underlying issue in this case is that the AFP attended, as the international airports fall into their responsibility, and they enforce Commonwealth laws and regulations. Would the NSW Police attend it would probably have ended differently, as I assume these things are regulated in state legislation.

Anyway, I acknowledge the issues around insurance, registration etc., but with the taxi industry being in such a mess and clearly one of the least customer-focussed industries, I welcome anything that improves competitiveness and service levels.

Domestic (the story was filmed at the domestic airport) and international airports are commonwealth places. That's why AFP attended. NSW police will not attend to the airport. The guy clearly doesn't even understand simple jurisdictional separation.

 

[eastwest101]

Just exactly how far does the Federal juristicion extend? And where does the relevant (NSW) state juristiction begin though? At the doors of the terminal, at the kerb or within the property boundary of Sydney Airport Corporation Ltd (or whatever the legal enentity is).

I just always wondered this.

 

[Buzzard]

Obviously I need to pay more attention as I thought the cops at ADL airport were state not federal.

 

[jsoprano]

Just exactly how far does the Federal juristicion extend? And where does the relevant (NSW) state juristiction begin though? At the doors of the terminal, at the kerb or within the property boundary of Sydney Airport Corporation Ltd (or whatever the legal enentity is).

I just always wondered this.

I think both AFP and State Police are also often wondering the same thing...

From my first-hand experience in a previous job, being involved in discussions with an airport and both AFP and State Police around serious criminal activity that my employer and others encountered at that airport, this really depends on the boundaries of the airport itself, so I think the line is cut on a case-by-case basis. But it definitely doesn't end at the terminal door, it extends to forecourts, car parks, drop off lines, around the perimeter fence of the airport etc. But the problem often is enforcement of state legislation in AFP-controlled areas, that's where there is a lot of grey area it seems (as the Uber example on Lateline showed).

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I think both AFP and State Police are also often wondering the same thing...

From my first-hand experience in a previous job, being involved in discussions with an airport and both AFP and State Police around serious criminal activity that my employer and others encountered at that airport, this really depends on the boundaries of the airport itself, so I think the line is cut on a case-by-case basis. But it definitely doesn't end at the terminal door, it extends to forecourts, car parks, drop off lines, around the perimeter fence of the airport etc. But the problem often is enforcement of state legislation in AFP-controlled areas, that's where there is a lot of grey area it seems (as the Uber example on Lateline showed).

I think this right.

Universities are the same - Commonwealth jurisdiction (or at least they used to be way back in the time i was there!).

State police had to be 'invited in' to investigate something as they didn't otherwise have jurisdiction.

However - as always there will be exceptions to the rule. In cases of emergency, imminent threat, or if they're chasing someone, they can, I believe, continue to pursue that matter even if they cross 'the line'.

 

[Austff]

subscribed

 

[ajd]

In general, State/Territory law applies in Commonwealth places, and State/Territory police do have legal authority to act in Commonwealth places in accordance with State/Territory regulations (see Commonwealth Places (Application of Laws) Act 1970). I don't have a source for this in front of me, but my understanding is that many of the officers in AFP Airport Uniformed Policing are actually state police on secondment and thus would continue to have state policing powers (in addition, many AFP officers hold Special Constable or Recognised Law Enforcement Officer status under state legislation, but I'm not sure whether this is true in AFP Aviation). That said, legal jurisdiction doesn't necessarily mean operational jurisdiction.

When it comes to road vehicle legislation at the 21 Commonwealth-owned airports, the Airports (Control of On-Airport Activities) Regulation 1997 overrides state parking legislation to a degree (as well as liquor, gambling, smoking and business licensing laws), but doesn't have anything to say on other state laws on transport e.g. taxi licensing, as far as I can tell.

I'm not a lawyer and I have no internal AFP knowledge, but I wouldn't be surprised if the UberX driver could still have been charged under state legislation and the AFP officers there just weren't operationally prepared to do that kind of thing.

 

[ajd]

Universities are the same - Commonwealth jurisdiction (or at least they used to be way back in the time i was there!).

The only university that falls on Commonwealth land and is under Commonwealth control is The Australian National University in Canberra. Interestingly, this has the consequence of making offences against the ANU's parking and traffic regulations a Commonwealth crime, rather than an ACT regulatory infringement, making the campus a huge federal crime hotspot... ANU parking offences rank ACT at top of federal crime stats

The other universities in Australia are all under state or territory jurisdiction - however, they all have very extensive internal security arrangements and police investigations are always coordinated with campus security (have had some limited practical experience with this, unfortunately...).

 

[burmans]

I'm not a lawyer and I have no internal AFP knowledge.

Look I really don't want to be rude but if you aren't a lawyer and don't know what you are talking about, then why would you. The world is full of uninformed opinion without you adding to it.

 

[ajd]

Look I really don't want to be rude but if you aren't a lawyer and don't know what you are talking about, then why would you. The world is full of uninformed opinion without you adding to it.

You make a good point, but I at least try for semi-informed opinion with a modicum of research rather than a completely uninformed opinion...

 

[medhead]

Look I really don't want to be rude but if you aren't a lawyer and don't know what you are talking about, then why would you. The world is full of uninformed opinion without you adding to it.

Yeah, quoting the name of the legislation = uninformed opinion. I'm not a federal coppers or lawyer, guess that means I'm speaking uninformed opinion as well. Despite having previously having to understand the boundaries of state/commonwealth law.

 

[Anna]

why would you

Because it's the internet However I don't know the answer either, even though, trust me, I'm a lawyer :mrgreen:

The legal mechanism of how the Commonwealth owns airport land which was previously state land is likely to be different from how the Commonwealth owns the ANU land in the ACT so I don't think that's going to be a helpful analogy here.

Also just because some journalist calls ANU parking offences a "federal crime" doesn't make it true. The ACT doesn't have its own police force so the AFP do the policing there. Parking regulations are much more likely ANU regulations or ACT laws, and just enforced by the AFP.

State crimes/offences can still be committed on land owned by the Commonwealth. I doubt that the failure of NSW police to attend here was because it was on Commonwealth land. More likely they didn't want to participate in a media stunt.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Here's something from the AFP site about what they will and won't investigate: Report a Commonwealth crime - Australian Federal Police

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

To go back to the OP, it is illegal in NSW to pick up a passenger in a vehicle that is not licensed as a commercial passenger vehicle (or some other legal definition).
The idiot is probably technically correct, however the police are not that interested and probably use Uber themselves.
Don't trust me, I'm not a lawyer.