Turkish Airlines Application Grounded Before Launch

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RooFlyer said:
This is absolute BS; generously, it might be a 5th Freedom issue? For those encountering a paywall in the AFR article:

I don’t think TK were planning on asking for rights between SIN and AU
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jrfsp said:
I don’t think TK were planning on asking for rights between SIN and AU
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The article indicates that they were:

[the chairman of Turkish Airlines, Ahmet Bolat] said Turkish Airlines also needs “fifth freedoms”, or the right to sell tickets between Melbourne and Singapore, and Sydney and Singapore, as well as the longer Melbourne- and Sydney-to-Istanbul via Singapore fares, for the service to make commercial sense. This had caused some hesitance on the airline’s part.
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I understand that they need to fly via SIN initially, lacking aircraft to do Oz-IST.
 
RooFlyer said:
The article indicates that they were:



I understand that they need to fly via SIN initially, lacking aircraft to do Oz-IST.
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I believe 1 hour 45 mins is scheduled in the "timetable" for a stop at SIN at least to and from SYD.
 
CaptJCool said:
like it or not
Every country has different laws
Good luck with flaunting them
I worked with someone whose brother was hung up in Asia for drug trafficking - do I condone the trafficking or the hanging ? Neither
Yet the sadness of the surviving sibling was palpable

I cannot hope to change a country’s approach - including the USA and Qatar who Trek right (or left in sum States but not the sun state of florida) on drugs and women’s rights
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www.theguardian.com

The 1975 cancels shows in Indonesia and Taiwan after Malaysia gay kiss uproar

English band says it is ‘impossible to proceed’ with concerts after set in Kuala Lumpur was cut short
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

sad
 
SCM said:
who in federal government can we complain to about these rejections?
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Your local Federal member is a good start. When enough constituents jump up and down they do listen.

I’m reading the AFR article as flagging a pothole in the road, not a dead end.
 
'AFR' on Monday 24 July 2023 has an article stating:

Turkish Airlines grounded before launch as Minister delays air rights​


Apparently Turkish Airlines' Chairman Mr Ahmet Bolat said at a Crown Casino gala event on Friday 21 July in Melbourne that 'legal issues' were delaying any official announcement about IST-SIN-MEL (or SYD) flights.

'AFR' didn't receive an answer from Federal Labor Minister Catherine King as to why she's stymieing the bid.

TA originally said IIRC it didn't need fifth freedom SIN-Australia-SIN rights but it's changed its tune.

It would also like the ability to offer (if it chooses) daily flights to MEL and also SYD i.e. 14 flights a week each way.

Given the Minister also stymied QR's request, limiting TK to just four flights a week each way is another example of the government not acting in travellers' best interests.

Approving TK and QRs' requests would improve service quality and in some cases lower fares.

That's what competition does.

About time governments in Australia stopped running a protection racket for the benefit of QF management and shareholders.

As an aside, Mr Bolat also said he could fly a plane twice to and from Miami in the time it'd take to fly (42 hours) from IST to one of the Oz destinations and return, with Miami being more profitable if TK wasn't allowed to sell tickets between Australia and Singapore.

Thanks to a previous Labor Government (Hawke/Keating) buttressed by strong support from the then Coalition Opposition (Howard), Australia removed tariffs and quotas many years ago, as these hobbled the economy.

But with air rights we still run a protectionist outfit.

Free trade has always been in the national interest. Even though many of us might not choose to use QR or TK, having more choice of flights would benefit passengers and exporters of air freighted goods. The Australian tourism industry with its high costs would also be a winner as there's no doubt the significant cost of air fares decreases inbound arrivals of tourists and even business visitors.
 
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AFR is incorrect. Turkey has rights to 7 services per week. The treaty already permits intermediate stops.

If there are legal issues on the route I would speculate it needs permission from Singapore to exercise its fifth freedom rights. The Singapore - Australia routes are unrestricted

I would have thought “government approval” just relates to the granting of a Foreign Air Operators Certificate which is a prerequisite (and takes time).
 
justinbrett said:
I would have thought “government approval” just relates to the granting of a Foreign Air Operators Certificate which is a prerequisite (and takes time).
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Isn't TK flying to every permanently inhabited continent except ours sufficient evidence of its capabilities?

I may not use it, but given 'AFR' says some sources indicate that allowing QR extra traffic rights would see return airfares drop by up to A$1000 to Europe ('AFR' didn't say 'economy' or 'business' but I assume it meant Y), it'd also be great to see TK flying in and out of MEL (and in time, SYD). The sooner the better!

Issuing an Air Operator's Certificate ought just require a rubber stamp.

Bureaucrats are a hindrance to Australia progressing, although it seems with QR (and possibly TK) the QF Chairman's Lounge is another large protectionist barrier.
 
Melburnian1 said:
Isn't TK flying to every permanently inhabited continent except ours sufficient evidence of its capabilities?
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No.

It's the system we use, which is different to EU/US who certify foreign authorities, not individual airlines. Aviation Safety is more important than profits.

In our part of the world that's important, as smaller South East Asia / Pacific countries do not have the national aeronautical authorities that other regions of the world do.

Airlines like Nepal Airlines are banned in EU & US just based on the country they are from, yet are expected to be granted an Australian Foreign AOC. They are a good airline.

CASA quote 130 days to assess & approve a foreign AOC. I don't think that's hindering anything. AA, BA, UA etc all had to do it.

Your slander against QF is uncalled for, the AFR article even states QF does not object - and why would they. A two stop service to Europe is not much competition.
 

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