The return of Virgin to New Zealand?

[Warks]

I was just mucking around with the booking engine looking at flights to AKL in November and kept getting "no availability" or error screens. I was wondering if the site was having a malfunction but saw no other reports. Then I tried a domestic booking and it worked. The light went on - VA still isn't flying to NZ? It would have been nice if the engine gave some sort of message to that effect.
Anyway from what I can find online the only mention I found was that VA plan on returning to NZ in 'November' and it looks like only to Queenstown. So when are they going to fly to Auckland etc again? Airfares are no bargain on QF and Air NZ currently so needs some competition. I guess we have to wait and see.

 

[HS-TQE]

Unlikely to be in the planning for the foreseeable future aside from Queenstown.

There's a slim chance of BNE-AKL linking up with the UA partnership for Queensland passengers (on the days that UA doesn't fly the non-stop SFO-Queensland route), but chances of that would also be low.

 

[TMP]

I guess we have to wait and see.

Think you might have answered your own question It's all speculation at this point.

 

[FlyingKangaroo]

Noticed this the other day when I went to book a long weekend in Wellington in the summer. Given the fares and high load factors the Tasman flights are commanding, I'm surprised VA hasn't thrown its hat back into the ring. Perhaps the industry doesn't expect the high fares to last too long (I did notice they've come down a bit across the board looking into next year), or VA doesn't want to risk taking the capacity and market share out of its domestic network.

 

[odysseus]

There was an interview with the new Velocity head last month, and it mentioned Auckland. Not promising.

‘Queenstown, I think, is very attractive,’ says Rohrlach. ‘As we keep growing the fleet, we’ll keep looking at the likes of Auckland and Wellington. But the likes of Bali and Queenstown are sort of outranking, at the moment, the Aucklands.’ And put simply, each new route ‘has got to wash its own face’.

‘Premium leisure and visiting friends and relatives are definitely at the heartland of the new Virgin. And that fits, hence the Queenstown before Auckland,’ Rohrlach adds.

Under new CEO Nick Rohrlach, Velocity Frequent Flyer is just warming up

In this wide-ranging exclusive interview, we chat with Rohrlach about everything from card partnerships to the prospect of Star Alliance.

www.pointhacks.com.au

 

[Saab34]

Auckland has always been a money burner hasn’t it? High taxes, low yield market. Why they offloaded it to cheaper Tasman crews. Jetstar isn’t that huge either to Auckland.

 

[Zanzara]

NZ is a very price sensitive market. Predominantly parsimonious VFR.

 

[HS-TQE]

Auckland has always been a money burner hasn’t it? High taxes, low yield market. Why they offloaded it to cheaper Tasman crews. Jetstar isn’t that huge either to Auckland.

I do recall reading somewhere that BNE-AKL was their strongest market, although if they were losing money on the other routes, it wouldn't matter anyway as 1 strong route and all the other routes being weak is still a money burn. It's the same situation with the now defunct VAi Long Haul, revenue from LAX wasn't enough to cover the continual losses to the former co-owner hubs of HKG/AUH.

 

[Mwenenzi]

NZ is a very price sensitive market. Predominantly parsimonious VFR.

Auckland has always been a money burner hasn’t it? High taxes, low yield market. Why they offloaded it to cheaper Tasman crews. Jetstar isn’t that huge either to Auckland.

Real taxes are the same for every airline on the same route. Both AU & NZ govt (real) taxes have increased. My last MEL-CHC had AU$148 tax/fees and CHC-MEL had NZ$64 tax/fees. Au has a PASSENGER MOVEMENT CHARGE AUD60.00 hidden in the air fare. And other AU taxes/fees.

AKL- SYD is /was a busy route. Before CV19 QF had 4 flights a day (B737 & A330). Air NZ similar.
NZ to QLD is VFR - leisure route.
As above NZ to AU is a price sensitive market for many. For $10 headline fare difference some will chose another airline, even if they have to buy food & drink on board.
For most travellers ffp's are unimportant. On AFF we in the 5% who are interested and understand ffp's.

At times I used to fly VA CHC-MEL and even less VA MEL-CHC:- schedule that matched my needs, always cheaper than QF & NZ and often about JQ pricing. But loads were low:- always plenty of spare seats. But VA only operated that 2~3 times a week (not enough for a full service).

Until VA get more aircraft/staff cannot see VA doing much more in NZ. For say 1 flight a day to a NZ airport that has a lot of fixed on ground costs (with Menzies or equal). AU <----> NZ is a hard market.

 

[Saab34]

Real taxes are the same for every airline on the same route. Both AU & NZ govt (real) taxes have increased. My last MEL-CHC had AU$148 tax/fees and CHC-MEL had NZ$64 tax/fees. Au has a PASSENGER MOVEMENT CHARGE AUD60.00 hidden in the air fare. And other AU taxes/fees.

That’s pretty heavy. Jetstar often had fares $100-$150 each way.

 

[Mwenenzi]

off topic

That’s pretty heavy. Jetstar often had fares $100-$150 each way.

Not for some time. Been regularly flying MEL<--->CHC for ~6 years on VA, NZ, QF, JQ & CI (10-15 per year). Before that only a few times per year.
The CHC-MEL NZ$64 tax/fee last week was on JQ. The lowest CHC MEL fare only $103 (no taxes) was Mar 2019. The lowest MEL-CHC fare only $68 (no taxes) was Apr 2019. Both on JQ. CI, when it flew that route, was low priced and at good times (for me).

 

[Warks]

Cheapest returns in November are $568 to $584 to $637 (JQ-NZ-QF). So not much joy there. Looks like I'll have to burn some QF points as I'm not currently flush with cash. Even then you still pay about a third in taxes or burn twice the points (it seems).

 

[Saab34]

Market dynamics have changed it appears, without Virgin and even Emirates pricing perhaps will now shift higher permanently.

Air Asia is really the only player that might keep Jetstar honest from SYD-AKL with a big 333 to fill.

 

[Mwenenzi]

Cheapest returns in November are $568 to $584 to $637 (JQ-NZ-QF). So not much joy there. Looks like I'll have to burn some QF points as I'm not currently flush with cash. Even then you still pay about a third in taxes or burn twice the points (it seems).

$280 - $325 one way seems to be the about base rate now. Sales are less common ;- flights have high loads. Real govt taxes have increased. Fuel cost higher, but now dropping.

LA fly AKL-SYD, EK (wide body) are to restart CHC-SYD. QR (wide body) fly AKL-ADL, but for now much longer unknown. Air Asia to try AKL-SYD. CI seems to have dropped AKL-BNE for a non stop AKL service.

All that makes it hard for VA to restart many AU<--->NZ services. ZQN, which VA are supposed to retstart, is B737/A320 only airport due to its size.

 

[Warks]

Flight TO Australia are routinely cheaper than flights FROM Australia due to taxes I am guessing. Who is charging the taxes? The city of departure or arrival?

 

[Mwenenzi]

Getting off topic

Flight TO Australia are routinely cheaper than flights FROM Australia due to taxes I am guessing. Who is charging the taxes? The city of departure or arrival?

Both: Federal & NZ govt. The taxes for a one way flight have a an AU and a NZ component.
As post 9, higher ex AU, mainly due to the AU$60 departure tax.

From my last MEL-CHC JQ flights

PASSENGER MOVEMENT CHARGE AUD60.00​

SAFETY AND SECURITY CHARGE AUD16.49​

PASSENGER SERVICE CHARGE AUD23.46​

F1CA AUD35.20​

PASSENGER SERVICE CHARGE (INTERNATIONAL) - Arrival AUD13.50​

Total Taxes, fees and charges AUD148.65​

From a 2020 Air NZ MEL-AKL flight 24.58WY 6.04WG 16.10KK 15.80F1 60.00AU

Some are NZ charges converted to AU$. As such due to AU-NZ exchange rate variations can change day to day (usually less than $1)
Think F1CA is a NZ govt tax (would need to check). It increased- doubled.
Some where I have a list of what they are in plain English and if AU or NZ

 

[ferntree]

Could somebody give me a heads up on what the latest news is on Virgin and flights to New Zealand please? I've googled and found a whole heap of contradictory articles. I've tried the Virgin web site ... it lets me search for Wellington, Auckland or Christchurch but always comes up with nothing available. I'd assume that if they're killing these routes altogether they'd be removong them from their search engines?

Thanks! I'm asking because we're looking at possibly going over there for a week or two soon after Xmas.

 

[henrus]

Could somebody give me a heads up on what the latest news is on Virgin and flights to New Zealand please?

From BNE to ZQN daily from 2 November (reducing to 3x weekly from end of April but increasing again to daily during winter school holidays ~end of June).

From SYD to ZQN daily from 2 November (reducing to 3x weekly from 1 May but increasing again to daily during winter school holidays).

From MEL to ZQN 4x weekly from 3 Nov (increasing to daily in April 2023 but then no flights from most of May/June before daily during winter school holidays).

 

[Saab34]

I don’t think the VA fleet is growing until Jan 2023 so I can’t see a whole heap of expansion to AKL/CHC anytime soon. You could say the schedule is already too heavy vs the crew challenges they seem to be having at the moment.

I wouldn’t be waiting around for VA.

 

[ferntree]

Thanks for the tip.