The demise of Qantas international flights

[Archphoto]

That of course is a matter of personal opinion. I rather like the re-timed flights. Coming from Canberra it means I can get an early jet CBR-SYD, rather than waste half a day doing nothing then get a dash-8, or an early jet and have a 7 hour wait in Sydney, which was the case when QF1/2 left at ~5pm. It also means I can arrive in Bangkok at a decent hour, which allows me to get my body clock adjusted easier by being able to have an relaxed evening meal and get to bed by 9 or 10pm rather than arriving at around midnight BKK time, getting to the hotel at 1am and trying to go to work in a fit and alert state at 8:30am.

As for connections there are a shed load of possible flights from 6pm onwards. Sure some, like RJ to Amman, AY to Helsinki or even BA to LHR have 5-6 hour wait times, but previously some of these connections were not possible, unless you got the BA flight that left Sdney slightly earlier than the old QF1/2 to BKK.

And yes you are right with a 4:30pm arrival there is no chance of meetings that day, though that was true with the 11:30pm arrival too (unless said meeting was at Soi Cowboy!), but as mentioned above you have a better chance of being able to get up and go the next day with a decent sleep which is gained by arriving early.

Sure you may well disagree, but as mentioned it is all a matter of personal opinion and the above is mine.

I agree with an earlier departure time - but this is (for me) just too early. Any problems at ADL on the first flight out, and I'm screwed - slightly later (even an hour/hour and a half)) gives some breathing space. As I said, those in MEL, CBR have a greater selection of flights - those of us in ADL only have one due to curfew - 6am. If that's delayed - chances are we'll be kissing the connecting flight goodbye.

The original late flight was a pain, but understandable for the connection with BA or onward flight on QF to LHR. But now that that has gone, a change was certainly a good idea, but they've basically gone crazy in the opposite direction - it terminates there, so an arrival time of 6:00/6:30PM isn't going to hurt.

So many flights are leaving from BKK, you'd still be making a flight into the EU (or Asia) even with the later arrival time. Thumbs up for it arriving earlier, but given that the flight terminates there, they could have chosen a slightly later departure time without hurting the majority of those on the flight.

 

[Robert Qld]

I've said it before, but if QF eventually flies into Berlin (once Brandenburg is built), it would be wet dream of mine come true.

Since QR is really the only offering one stop flights at the moment (with layovers in Doha so awful it ends up being much quicker to go via LHR). I think itis like 17 or 18 hour layover on one of the legs.

 

[Isochronous]

I've said it before, but if QF eventually flies into Berlin (once Brandenburg is built), it would be wet dream of mine come true.

Since QR is really the only offering one stop flights at the moment (with layovers in Doha so awful it ends up being much quicker to go via LHR). I think itis like 17 or 18 hour layover on one of the legs.

Where else in Europe does EK have traffic restriction problems that QF could help with?

 

[zachary.august]

On the topic of the B744s that sit in LAX, I have it on very good authority that AA is rather hostile to QF operating any internal US flights. The LAX-JFK tag frustrates them no end as well because most AUS passengers prefer to take that flight over an AA service. QF can't operate LAX-YVR due to some traffic restriction stating the service needs to go via SFO. It is possible that if QF could get them to relax restrictions on this service they could operate a LAX-YVR-LAX service with an AA codeshare. In regards to Europe I think flying SYD-HKG-DXB-LHR-JFK-LHR-DXB-HKG-SYD with an A388 could be quite lucrative since EK could codeshare on the whole service giving them access to the SYD-HKG market and the LHR-JFK market.

 

[Isochronous]

On the topic of the B744s that sit in LAX, I have it on very good authority that AA is rather hostile to QF operating any internal US flights. The LAX-JFK tag frustrates them no end as well because most AUS passengers prefer to take that flight over an AA service. QF can't operate LAX-YVR due to some traffic restriction stating the service needs to go via SFO. It is possible that if QF could get them to relax restrictions on this service they could operate a LAX-YVR-LAX service with an AA codeshare. In regards to Europe I think flying SYD-HKG-DXB-LHR-JFK-LHR-DXB-HKG-SYD with an A388 could be quite lucrative since EK could codeshare on the whole service giving them access to the SYD-HKG market and the LHR-JFK market.

Well LAX-JFK is a flagship AA route, surely they wouldn't mind QF doing something that AA doesn't do like LAX-YVR or SFO-YVR? What about LAX-Montreal even?

 

[dajop]

On the topic of the B744s that sit in LAX, I have it on very good authority that AA is rather hostile to QF operating any internal US flights. The LAX-JFK tag frustrates them no end as well because most AUS passengers prefer to take that flight over an AA service.

About 9-10 years ago, QF had a huge campaign around Chicago. All set up with QF93 (MEL-LAX) flight continuing on to ORD. Then a week or two out it was all canned and disappeared without trace. I am sure AA had something to do with that.

For new destinations, I wonder if direct PHX flighs would now be on the radar, depending on what AA do with the hub there?

 

[chrisb]

PER-NRT-PER died within the last few years. I guess there's no Japanese tourists visiting Australia or vv. :|

Or the fact it was overnight on a 767 so you had to be a bit loopy to fly it rather than SQ or CX.

 

[Skyring]

Many years ago, I used to be a grognard wargame player. Had a huge collection of SPI/Strategy and Tactics boardgames. In the Strategy and Tactics magazine, there would be a feedback card included, where players could rate the articles, games they had recently played, new game proposals etc. Someone would collate all the cards returned, the management would try to figure out future directions based on the results.

Every issue a range of games would be proposed on various subjects and it emerged that the hardcore gamers really wanted big detailed multi-player games. There was a nine-map game on WW2 with three players, a seven map War in the Pacific with every cruiser and above, every battalion, every squadron represented by its own individual cardboard counter. Lots of counters. Campaign for North Africa came out with every individual fighter pilot rated, truck counters to carry around the supplies - the Italians needed more water than anyone else because of their reliance on spaghetti - if you fought a battle and took prisoners you had to put a POW camp counter on the map and supply it with trucks... It was just mindblowing in complexity.

Now, these game proposals scored highly in feedback and so the company would allocate significant amounts of designer, researcher, artwork, playtest time. A lot more than for a regular one map/200 counter game. These things were true monsters and when they were produced they came out in double-sized boxes crammed full of maps and counters and rules and charts. With higher price tags to reflect the extra resources that had been used.

It turned out that while just about everybody who bothered to send in a feedback card put high scores on these game proposals, but when the products actually became available, not that many were sold. They were expensive and complex and needed a lot of space to play and you had to assemble a team of players for a week or so. It was a big ask.

The company had invested a lot in these games. They could have split up the production resources and brought out several smaller games for each monster and done better overall. But the feedback cards had pointed them in the monstergame direction. The company went bust in the early Eighties - they couldn't pay their debts and they got eaten up.

The relevance here is that Qantas might listen to we veteran campaigners who might actually find a whole bunch of new routes useful. I might score international flights out of Canberra highly, for example, and yes, I'd be keen on a FRA-SFO leg. That would be very handy for me.

But when you need to fill a 747 or 380 full of people paying thousands per seat, it becomes a different proposition. You need more than just hard core flyers. Given the cost of establishing new destinations ad the cost of the flights themselves, it's a big ask for Qantas. They need to be very sure they can make a profit, and while our yeah-yeah-yeah support is nice, it's the passengers who don't post here who ultimately turn out to be important.

I look at the travel ads, and I see a lot of European river cruises advertised. I'll bet a Paris flight would carry a lot of those bums. Likewise Alaska and Canada as a tourist destination. Hugely popular.

As for flights from Perth or Adelaide - or Canberra - is the demand really there? Maybe it would make more sense to develop Darwin as an Asian gateway. As a hub, rather than a destination. Better located than Sydney, that's for sure.

 

[Mattg]

Wouldn't this flight be nice? Let's just call it QF33/34 because I don't think that exists yet:

QF33 PER 16:25 - DXB 23:25 (11:00) A330
QF33 DXB 02:10 - TXL 06:40 (6:30) A330


QF34 TXL 23:25 - DXB 07:35 (6:10) A330
QF34 DXB 09:10 - PER 23:55 (10:45) A330

These flights would allow PER pax to connect with LHR QF services, and allow SYD and MEL pax to connect with the service to Berlin. As mentioned before, they can codeshare with EK who don't fly to Berlin, and also get feeder traffic from Berlin through airberlin, who don't fly to DXB (or Australia). Everyone wins! A possible issue is that EK already fly DXB-PER at similar times, but I guess that didn't stop QF on the DXB-SYD/MEL routes.

I would definitely use this service, and I know many others who would too. I really enjoyed using the QF5/6 to FRA and was on one of its last ever flights to FRA. The CSM said in his spiel at the end of the flight "We hope to see you again on a Qantas aircraft soon" - if they really meant this, why stop flying to Germany?! Not to mention, the flight was completely full.

Are you listening, QF??

 

[The Rok]

I spoke to a friend in Ireland who works at Dublin airport who says there are huge rumours that QF will soon be flying into DUB from DXB to supplement EK's daily service.

Personally, I'd love to see LAX-MIA, but I agree with skyring, it's not what I want but what's profitable for the airline.

 

[ajw373]

For me, I would like to see the reinstatemnt of PER-HKG, MEL-NRT (which will provide a direct link between Melbourne and Japan), MEL-PVG (although it is well served by QF's partner, MU), SYD-KUL (again, it is well served by its OW partner, MH). These flights are probably possible after the transfer and refit of the A330 fleet.

Not really. The A330's are needed to replace the (domestic) 767's. So to fly these routes new a/c are needed for either domestic or to service these routes.

 

[Mattg]

Not really. The A330's are needed to replace the (domestic) 767's. So to fly these routes new a/c are needed for either domestic or to service these routes.

Aren't they getting several A332s from JQ?

 

[pauly7]

Aren't they getting several A332s from JQ?

Yes... Another 10 or so I think (will wait to be bluntly corrected by a loveable resident AV geek )
They are already returning to QF but no new routes have opened up.

Rumours are about that Hawaii will get some.

 

[Age.R]

Just adding my 2c to the original post.

It is completely, utterly and totally ridiculous what Qantas is now charging as 'tax' for Awards Flights.

It is essentially now just a half price flight.

$862 in Tax for a MEL-LAX return flight - are Qantas seriously kidding us that this is all actually tax and not just shameless profiteering ?

One day the penny will drop and people will wake up to the con that it is.

Age.

 

[ajw373]

Aren't they getting several A332s from JQ?

Yes to replace domestic 767's. So for any international expansion, which is what was being discussed they will need some other aircraft.

 

[brett-au]

SYD-YVR sounds like the perfect seasonal route for Jetstar's 787.

 

[brad330]

I remember when QF used to fly CNS-NRT TWICE a day.

 

[Fruitcake]

I remember when QF used to fly CNS-NRT TWICE a day.

I remember when Japanese tourists used to visit Cairns!

 

[mannej]

As for flights from Perth or Adelaide - or Canberra - is the demand really there? Maybe it would make more sense to develop Darwin as an Asian gateway. As a hub, rather than a destination. Better located than Sydney, that's for sure.

Every other airline apart from QF must think there is demand from PER...
They seem to be adding flights, not withdrawing...

 

[moa999]

When QFi has no new deliveries until 2017 (the remaining 8 A380s)
and another 5-6 747s to retire in the next couple of years,
at best a few A330 hand me downs from JQ

QFi certainly won't be adding any new routes,
unless it hits those 787-9 options.