Sydney to get second international airport

[brown891]

Found an article this morning saying Turnbull had approved a second international airport for Sydney.

Australian government approves second Sydney airport | News | DW.COM | 12.12.2016

Initially looking to be one runway big enough to cater for an A380, it is expected to be done in mid-2020's and located at Badgery Creek.

Given how much traffic SYD gets now, both cars getting to the airport and plane delays because of amount of flights, what's everyones thoughts on this?

Will we see the second airport become a cheaper alternative for airlines and thus see it become more of a budget airport - similar to Gatwick or London City airport etc?

I'm from Brisbane so I'm keen to hear some NSW perspectives!

 

[RooFlyer]

This was announced about 16 months ago by PM Abbott - I guess there was a formal sign-off recently. There is a substantial road and rail funding package ($3.6 bill) from the Feds+NSW also. See here.

 

[brown891]

This was announced about 16 months ago by PM Abbott - I guess there was a formal sign-off recently. There is a substantial road and rail funding package ($3.6 bill) from the Feds+NSW also. See here.

Yeah I think it just got approved so that's why it is in the news.
I wasn't a part of AFF 16 months ago haha so yep I'll have a read of that but still keen to hear opinions

Thanks!

 

[RooFlyer]

I reckon its a no brainer. Kingsford Smith is constrained in so many ways; how will it be in 30+ years if there isn't a second Sydney airport?

I hear the complainers that Badgery's Creek is so far out of the CBD, but then think, so what? No all flyers want to go to the CBD, or come from there and no doubt flights will continue into Kingsford Smith!

Yes, I reckon the western Sydney airport will be the 'cheaper' alternative, both in terms of airport fees and the fact that it will be less convenient for many.

 

[pauly7]

Tiger and Jetstar to move do we think? Or LCC international carriers?

 

[mrdctau]

I was catching bits and pieces about this on the news last night and got the impression that a rail link to the new airport is not on the agenda which seems to be very poor planning.

Hopefully the airport will be able to operate 24x7.

I also hope that it will be designed to enable ambulatory connections to and from international and domestic flights.

 

[andyhui01]

I just have this feeling if Jetstar and Tiger move, VA and QF will have a mini duopoly on domestic flights into Kingsford smith and can easily up prices.

 

[Jeffrey O'Neill]

considering the end cost of the new airport will likely be close to double, and it will about as ready as the Govt's NBN to all by 2016 pledge, i wonder if it would be cheaper to offer to buy any homes affected by allowing the current airport to go 24 hours with no artificial movement restrictions. i'm sure there'd be plenty of willing buyers of the properties willing to trade a bit of noise with being closer to the city. The govt may not lose much on the buy / sell spread. could be a way to offer some affordable housing closer to the city.

put in strict noise standards for aircraft able to fly during the current curfew hours, and fix up the roads in the area - a levy on the airport to recover a significant amount of the increased value of the airport would allow this.

would certainly add capacity fairly quickly.

another cheaper option may be a rapid railway to canberra. straighten the track so current trains could spend most of the trip at 160KM - iirc current tracks can support 200-220KM. If cambpelltown to canberra airport was a similar travel time as to sydney airport, could be a viable alternative for a lot of people in the western subs of sydney. at least would push syd airport to lift their game. if CBR offered cheap parking that would def give them an advantage for those preferring to drive. just need to get a critical mas of flights out of canberra.

 

[Denali]

I heard on the radio yesterday that the "initial stage will resemble Adelaide airport".

Having never been to Adelaide, I cant decide if thats a good or bad thing but I was thinking why not design it similar to Changi? You know, the airport that consistently voted as one of the top airports in the world.

As Sydney suburbanite, I cant help thinking its just like everything else we build. Too small, little foresight, didnt listen to locals/end users and badly planned. It will go to the cheapest tender with the smallest vision and then 4yrs later will admit they need to redevelop to allow for expansion, which they should have planned for at the beginning.

I was also following up local new housing development for Marsden Park/Vineyard ect and noted that the discussion on building road/rail corridors to access Badgerys - which is a bonus to us as land owners.

 

[AviatorInsight]

My concern is, will the company expect me to operate out of both airports? Similar to Jetstar's BNE and OOL basings, where crew may be required to operate from both ports.

Will they expect me to drive to/from Badgery's creek in peak hour after a long 12 hour duty? If the rail link goes ahead, will there be a discount for airport workers, seeing as there isn't one in place at the current airport?

Will all be very interesting to see what actually happens, at least I know I'm safe for the next couple of years before it opens up.

 

[drron]

My concern is, will the company expect me to operate out of both airports? Similar to Jetstar's BNE and OOL basings, where crew may be required to operate from both ports.

Will they expect me to drive to/from Badgery's creek in peak hour after a long 12 hour duty? If the rail link goes ahead, will there be a discount for airport workers, seeing as there isn't one in place at the current airport?

Will all be very interesting to see what actually happens, at least I know I'm safe for the next couple of years before it opens up.

I think you will be right for the rest of your career.The NSW State government first moved on planning for Badgery's creek more than 50 years ago-in 1964 they put a special development zone around the site to prevent subdivision.In the 1980s the Federal Government started buying land there.
So I doubt I will ever see an airport at Badgery's Creek.

 

[Jeffrey O'Neill]

My concern is, will the company expect me to operate out of both airports? Similar to Jetstar's BNE and OOL basings, where crew may be required to operate from both ports.

Will they expect me to drive to/from Badgery's creek in peak hour after a long 12 hour duty? If the rail link goes ahead, will there be a discount for airport workers, seeing as there isn't one in place at the current airport?

Will all be very interesting to see what actually happens, at least I know I'm safe for the next couple of years before it opens up.

my understanding is there's a weekly cap of $21 for the airport station access fee. still a significant extra to pay for staff working at the airport, who generally wont be high earners, but better than before they brought this in for the opal card.

as for a long drive home after a 12 hour flight, i think that comes down to an OH&S issue the airline would need to manage - fatigue management for flight crew should already be something the company deals with.

 

[RB]

I am not sure there are any new developments, but as a Nth Coast NSW resident I don't want to face the prospect of flying to Sydney yet end up way out west-nothing seems to be in place yet to ensure the "speed" advantage that flying has is maintained when the new airport eventually opens

 

[AviatorInsight]

as for a long drive home after a 12 hour flight, i think that comes down to an OH&S issue the airline would need to manage - fatigue management for flight crew should already be something the company deals with.

And they do, but calling fatigued after every shift will start to raise some flags. If I'm being forced to operate from 2 airports then I agree something will need to be done. At the moment, if I live 2 hours away from the airport then that's my choice and I would then bear the responsibility to manage fatigue. But I don't live far. I'm about 15mins away to help mitigate fatigue and because it's where I want to live.

 

[seanpodge]

Tiger and Jetstar to move do we think? Or LCC international carriers?

I think it will attract all comers, especially if it doesn't have a curfew. QR for example complained that the curfew at SYD was a major reason why they didn't fly there for a long time. The fact that they're building for A380s also suggests that it won't just be a LCC airport. There are several major, quality carriers (SQ, CX, TG, MH, QF, QR, etc) that operate out of MEL at hours that the curfew at SYD just does not permit. I suspect that several foreign airlines will split between SYD and Badgerys. It does look like the NSW government is going to have proper connections between the two, so it has a chance of working fairly well.

 

[jb747]

My concern is, will the company expect me to operate out of both airports? Similar to Jetstar's BNE and OOL basings, where crew may be required to operate from both ports.

Will they expect me to drive to/from Badgery's creek in peak hour after a long 12 hour duty? If the rail link goes ahead, will there be a discount for airport workers, seeing as there isn't one in place at the current airport?

Will all be very interesting to see what actually happens, at least I know I'm safe for the next couple of years before it opens up.

I think you work for a better company than Jetstar.

In any event, you'll be an old and grey man before this becomes reality.

 

[harvyk]

For me to believe Sydney is getting a second airport, I would need to be sitting on a flight taking off from it. I see this in much the same way as HSR between SYD and CBR. Something which has had more studies and green lights than a student driving to uni.

 

[Quickstatus]

A HSR will never be HS between SYD CBR and MEL because too many little towns will want to have their stop along the route and Trumpism has made the politicians a bit wary of being disconnected

 

[Jeffrey O'Neill]

I think it will attract all comers, especially if it doesn't have a curfew. QR for example complained that the curfew at SYD was a major reason why they didn't fly there for a long time. The fact that they're building for A380s also suggests that it won't just be a LCC airport. There are several major, quality carriers (SQ, CX, TG, MH, QF, QR, etc) that operate out of MEL at hours that the curfew at SYD just does not permit. I suspect that several foreign airlines will split between SYD and Badgerys. It does look like the NSW government is going to have proper connections between the two, so it has a chance of working fairly well.

whether the airport will turn a profit being the after hours airport for syd, with pax probably willing to pay a premium for the ease of connections via SYD, will see the new airport as predominantly for LCC, unless the landing fees are so much cheaper they allow fares low enough for PAX to find the potential inconvenience worth it.

you have to be pretty west before badgerys creek is closer than mascot. factor in no rail line and there may not be an affordable way to get the airport for the single traveller.

The forecast $3B construction cost will likely be closer to $6B if new airport costs around the world are a reliable guide.

Expected to open in the mid 2020s - plenty of wiggle room there. prob in reality around 2030 since every new airport has been over budget and behind schedule, and infrastructure in australia is never on time or budget.

No flight paths announced yet, so that's gonna need me to stock up on pop corn to watch the sheet fight over that.

it' a massive amount of "investment" purely due to the politics surrounding utilising the current airport more efficiently.

i wonder how much govt pork is going to have to go in funding this "private" infrastructure.

 

[jb747]

..... and Trumpism has made the politicians a bit wary of being disconnected

Oh, they've all been disconnected forever. It's just that Brexit and Trump (and others to come) have now shown them that their actual employers can fire them.