Sydney curfew lost opportunities

[Sprucegoose]

Just build Badgery's Creek and run it 24/7!

Easy! Where are the hi speed transport links??

NSW has been asleep for the last 15 years.

 

[Dee Thom]

Easy! Where are the hi speed transport links??

NSW has been asleep for the last 15 years.

Well said Spruce, but I'm afraid the real estate and building industry hasn't, lots of houses and industry going up around the original airports planned approach and departure corridors, so back to the 1980's and start again.

Cheers,
Dee

 

[docjames]

Last nights QF44 a great example of why some flexibility is needed. Crazy to get so close, a landing aircraft on approach, and turn all the way back to MEL. No-one wins, the residents get the noise of a spooling up a/c (worse than letting it land!), the pax and airline get majorly mucked around (for being 15seconds late), and the environment gets another hours fuel burnt.

What a joke.


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[simongr]

I don't think it is about a few AFFers having more convenient flights - it is about the economic reality of NSW being left behind.

 

[kamchatsky]

2nd airport is too expensive, and will never happen. Just kill curfew for next generation quiet planes.

And before anyone said I do not understand airport noise, I live in Sydney myself and I used to live right underneath flight path with no double glazed windows, and right next to good old Kaitak for 6 years. I saw jumbo landing every 3 minutes in peak hours.

 

[markis10]

Last nights QF44 a great example of why some flexibility is needed. Crazy to get so close, a landing aircraft on approach, and turn all the way back to MEL. No-one wins, the residents get the noise of a spooling up a/c (worse than letting it land!), the pax and airline get majorly mucked around (for being 15seconds late), and the environment gets another hours fuel burnt.

What a joke.


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I am sure the residents of Hurstville and Bexley agree!

 

[Must...Fly!]

What absolute madness this is, calling an aircraft off final approach

The complete lack of flexibility in the curfew is just insane.

I've always wondered how many times EK have been caught up with this with their 2230 arrival on EK414.

Speaking of, it's a bit late tonight, left DXB almost an hour late.

 

[straitman]

And that adds real weight to the debate.

It does actually.

You get used to the noise quickly? Just remember not everyone is the same and those that bought ~10kms from airport in 1974 were not under any flight path until some dope decided to share the load everywhere in the 90's.

10km is too close to an airport to say it never was an issue. It was an issue in 1974. You might not have been under a flight path, but the jets were a whole lot noisier then. Calling people dopes does not help the argument. (either way)

Don't tell me about there being no choice. There is a choice. Move all flight paths to where the people use them the most. And that would be the Eastern Suburbs and North Shore. There problem solved....

Move them to MEL and/or BNE. Teach the rest of the world that there are other cities in Oz and train the airlines to use those airports. The many people who currently have to transit SYD would appreciate that.

 

[Jacques Vert]

I am concerned about this thread; members seem to be insisting on common sense and considered opinion!

It is a political decision; when did politics and common sense come together?

JV

 

[Moody]

I am concerned about this thread; members seem to be insisting on common sense and considered opinion!

It is a political decision; when did politics and common sense come together?

JV

The last federal election ....

But I agree that slavish adherence to the curfew doesn't make sense (I have been a victim of it myself) and surely there can be some limited flexibility put into the system. Trouble is it would have to be very limited flexibility as you can hardly force everyone to work an extra hour or two on demand because a flight landed past curfew.

 

[JohnK]

So because someone doesn't agree with your point of view John it is rubbish?

Nothing wrong with a debate. And as far as I am aware the curfew is still on.

What I referred to as rubbish was the cheap shots from the peanut gallery who think they know everything.

 

[Sprucegoose]

No sydneysider as no right to complain about airport noise period.

The price they pay reflects how close they are too the airport.

Then again there is that self righteous cross section..........

 

[anat0l]

No sydneysider as a right to complain about airport noise period.

The price they pay reflects how close they are to the airport.

Then again there is that self righteous cross section..........

Corrected that for you

I don't think it's that easy. Amenity related complaints are quite real - same as being close to a mine which arrives in town and you were there first.

The main problem with amenity related complaints is that they are primarily one-sided, and have no onus on the complainants to provide some sort of input. At least, for example, with new mines near existing towns, the town is often consulted as to how to manage the amenity issues (it may involve a compromise with accompanying loss of amenity, but at least it is negotiated). With noise complaints near airports, it seems that residents complain, but that's about it. The government makes no inquiry as to the validity or the nature of those complaints - they are always assumed to be valid (i.e. non-frivolous) and are counted against the airport.

So no one can really rely on residents to account for any noise issues. It's not that they do not have the right, but to the degree that they can complain with relative impunity, it is unfortunate that their complaints are relatively unproductive. (This filters up to the MPs who represent them, who naively pay it forward without offering any input themselves).

And of course, it's not just planes landing / taking off near the airport, it's also flight paths. Relocating the airport doesn't necessarily solve the flight pathing issue, so a curfew might even still be in force when a new airport (if it happens) is commissioned.

Sorry if that all sounds wishy-washy, but in the end I'm trying to say that social and community issues are quite real for any major activity (airport, factory, mine etc.), even if, very much unfortunately, some of the issues are based on irrationality, misinformation or frivolity (this does not imply that all Sydney airport complaints are based on these!)

In the end, the government really is taking an extremely lackadaisical position on this issue. It seems that it hasn't completely been to their complete detriment yet, as it seems, otherwise this issue would be a lot more "real" than just a bunch of "slow news day" articles. Not to mention that it would then be a keystone election issue (it hasn't been), and the airlines who would want more SYD operations aren't exactly doing more about opening options - they are banging their head against the brick wall pointlessly, holding out that SYD conditions will change, when they could mobilise a better (even workaround) solution much faster.

I'd gamble that there's more intense "lobbying" and discussion on AFF on this issue than there is in government, business circles and community consultations put together. That's not something to be proud of........

 

[Dee Thom]

I'd gamble that there's more intense "lobbying" and discussion on AFF on this issue than there is in government, business circles and community consultations put together. That's not something to be proud of........

Well, not by the Government, or community anyway. As has been stated, the Political input needed by "A" Government, will not happen whilst an incumbent member has any say in number of movements/curfew in their electorate that will impact on their bloated lifestyle.

I did hear years ago that the rock fill used to add the extra runways at SYD was wide enough to handle an extra strip, don't know how true that was though.

Cheers,
Dee.

 

[markis10]

I did hear years ago that the rock fill used to add the extra runways at SYD was wide enough to handle an extra strip, don't know how true that was though.

Cheers,
Dee.

I doubt that was the case, the port expansion at Botany has now closed that option regardless if the plan was to have a 16L added.

Having lived close to the airport for many years under the 07/25 fight path, you get used to the noise, and local politicians are often reminded of how many airport employees live close as well who vote. I wonder if we will see a second airport before the world runs out of commercial fuel supply?

 

[Dee Thom]

. I wonder if we will see a second airport before the world runs out of commercial fuel supply?

Or "Beam me up Scotty" becomes a reality.

Cheers,
Dee.

 

[defurax]

The funny thing about noise is what a would call "moral" value of the noise source. I used to live near a mega hospital for kids. Ambulance sirens and helicopters landing 24/7. It took me some time to get a full night sleep, though hovering helicopters tend to wake you up anyway. I have never heard a complaint about "noisy sick kids hospital". So I think people just rationalise hospital noise is good and airport noise is bad and the latter conclusion makes their live miserable because undesirable noise should be stopped. While the residents of the rich suburb surrounding the kids hospital feel almost lucky to live so close to the life-saving noise! We are just human

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[SteveJohnson]

I think one of the most creative solutions I ever heard was "they should sell all the homes around the airport to deaf people!"