SIN-SYD cheap fares, is double daily sustainable?

[dajop]

Just noticed that QF have sale ex-SIN at the moment, selling fares to SYD return for $675 SGD (~$580 AUD). This is the cheapest I've seen this route for a while, excluding glitches. Backing out the external (airport/government) taxes and charges, this is ~$130 AUD less than the MEL sale fares which are selling for $811 SGD ($700 AUD). In J there is a smaller differential (proportionally) but SYD fares are $400 less than MEL fares.

I wonder how long QF will stick to the double daily services if they need to keep this sort of discounting up. Whilst QF market double daily between SIN and BNE/MEL as well, the second service is on EK metal connecting to DXB and onwards to the raft of EK destinations, that the second SYD service doesn't have.

 

[Joshua]

It has often been a lot cheaper ex SIN. We booked a couple returns last year including flights on boxing day... was about 6 or 700 and upgradable fare buckets, so easy upgrades and more SC with a bunch of domestic connections thrown in. The current QF81/82 are interesting. Timing is supposedly better for onward connections. For those connecting in, or wanting booked Y+ or wanting a 747 nose or upperdeck or the very nice front row Y seating then QF5 is always going to be a better fit. The a330 service just sucks sadly. Loadings seem to be okay though? At least compared to the BNE route...

 

[dajop]

It has often been a lot cheaper ex SIN.

Yes it always has been cheaper ex-SIN, other than via expedia.com.br But that wasn't really my point. It was more the divergence in SYD & MEL fares. In the last five years (during which I've had a keen interest in SIN-Australia fares), I've never seen such a large divergence in the fares, given they are essentially similar distances (MEL about 150miles shorter) and similar-ish markets. To be fair I've also seen divergences in the last few months like this on SQ, but perhaps not quite this big. Maybe there's too much capacity on the route, I guess SYD has the extra BA flight that MEL doesn't.

 

[JohnK]

I have been purchasing airfares ex-SIN for ~6 years now and I have seen them this low in the past but not consistently and on sale for so long.

I think in peak times Qantas is going to do OK but for non-peak times it is not a pretty sight to see a 747 with ~60% capacity.

I questioned the other day whether QF51/QF52 can remain a daily service.

I am not convinced that SYD-SIN can remain a twice a day service.

Oh and the A330's are awful.

 

[mannej]

Be grateful - I am sure there are many QF pax in PER or ADL who would prefer the 330 to a single or no QF international flights from their ports...

 

[markis10]

Qantas need to work out how to get some day flights back into the schedule, I dont think a double daily leaving within hours of each other is going to work.

 

[moa999]

markis10, agreed...

CX does a good job with a spread of flights on the HKG-Oz routes.
Aircraft aside, can't see why QF can't do the same.

 

[bobe]

I have been purchasing airfares ex-SIN for ~6 years now and I have seen them this low in the past but not consistently and on sale for so long.

I think in peak times Qantas is going to do OK but for non-peak times it is not a pretty sight to see a 747 with ~60% capacity.

I questioned the other day whether QF51/QF52 can remain a daily service.

I am not convinced that SYD-SIN can remain a twice a day service.

Oh and the A330's are awful.

Hoe do you purchase oz flights from Sin? Is there a web site you can do this on? Tried putting in QF Sin but nothing turned up.

 

[markis10]

Hoe do you purchase oz flights from Sin? Is there a web site you can do this on? Tried putting in QF Sin but nothing turned up.

Just put Singapore in as the departure city, as that is what JohnK is doing, nesting ex SIN return trips. At AUD$1000 for PE return, if your a regular Asian visitor its a no brainer.

 

[Jleno]

Yes it always has been cheaper ex-SIN, other than via expedia.com.br But that wasn't really my point. It was more the divergence in SYD & MEL fares. In the last five years (during which I've had a keen interest in SIN-Australia fares), I've never seen such a large divergence in the fares, given they are essentially similar distances (MEL about 150miles shorter) and similar-ish markets. To be fair I've also seen divergences in the last few months like this on SQ, but perhaps not quite this big. Maybe there's too much capacity on the route, I guess SYD has the extra BA flight that MEL doesn't.

It does look like the expedia.com.br AUD400 days are gone and not returning. I'll have to go back to buying ex-SIN flights again. I did wonder why they send two planes out around the same time when they can spread it out across the day. You'd hope that someone in QF somewhere has done the maths and decided this is profitable. I wonder how SQ is faring on their SYD-SIN flights given they are almost always 20-30% more expensive. It would be interesting to see the financials as that should reveal whether travellers are willing to pay more for better service, given that SQ is clearly better than QF.

 

[Isochronous]

It does look like the expedia.com.br AUD400 days are gone and not returning. I'll have to go back to buying ex-SIN flights again. I did wonder why they send two planes out around the same time when they can spread it out across the day. You'd hope that someone in QF somewhere has done the maths and decided this is profitable. I wonder how SQ is faring on their SYD-SIN flights given they are almost always 20-30% more expensive. It would be interesting to see the financials as that should reveal whether travellers are willing to pay more for better service, given that SQ is clearly better than QF.

Is expedia.com.br not working anymore?

 

[JohnK]

Be grateful - I am sure there are many QF pax in PER or ADL who would prefer the 330 to a single or no QF international flights from their ports...

Did I say I was ungrateful?

The A330's belong on the PER and ADL routes and if I was after some extra SCs I would route that way on the shorter flights as I have done in the past.

 

[mannej]

Did I say I was ungrateful?

The A330's belong on the PER and ADL routes and if I was after some extra SCs I would route that way on the shorter flights as I have done in the past.

Don't worry it was implied...

What makes those from PER and ADL undeserving of a 380 quality product. It's not as if they are second class citizens.
Perhaps that is where QF management go wrong...

 

[JohnK]

Don't worry it was implied...

I know it was. I was just being nice.

What makes those from PER and ADL undeserving of a 380 quality product. It's not as if they are second class citizens.
Perhaps that is where QF management go wrong...

Good point. Just give PER and ADL a daily A380 service each to SIN and put the A330's and 767's on the SYD-SIN run. Makes sense.

 

[dajop]

It does look like the expedia.com.br AUD400 days are gone and not returning. I'll have to go back to buying ex-SIN flights again. I did wonder why they send two planes out around the same time when they can spread it out across the day. You'd hope that someone in QF somewhere has done the maths and decided this is profitable. I wonder how SQ is faring on their SYD-SIN flights given they are almost always 20-30% more expensive. It would be interesting to see the financials as that should reveal whether travellers are willing to pay more for better service, given that SQ is clearly better than QF.

Yes it seems odd that they try and compete with an airline (arguably offering superior service, and product) with 4x daily services spread fairly evenly across the day, with two similarly timed services. At least ex-MEL they have EK timing outbound from MEL different - although JQ and QF mirror each other's schedules. Also I might add, maybe, just maybe, there are people interested in leaving SYD later than 13:10, which essentially writes off the day anyway, as it means heading to the airport at 11:30 or earlier anyway.

 

[Isochronous]

Yes it seems odd that they try and compete with an airline (arguably offering superior service, and product) with 4x daily services spread fairly evenly across the day, with two similarly timed services. At least ex-MEL they have EK timing outbound from MEL different - although JQ and QF mirror each other's schedules. Also I might add, maybe, just maybe, there are people interested in leaving SYD later than 13:10, which essentially writes off the day anyway, as it means heading to the airport at 11:30 or earlier anyway.

I've never understood why QF MEL-SIN and JQ are the same - although it might have something to do with the JQ timings being affected by SIN-PEK.

 

[ComeFlyWithMe]

Don't worry it was implied...

What makes those from PER and ADL undeserving of a 380 quality product. It's not as if they are second class citizens.
Perhaps that is where QF management go wrong...

A funny thing called load factors.

 

[mannej]

A funny thing called load factors.

Don't get me started on that. You have two out of the 3 PER arrival times between 4:45 and 4:55 in the morning and the other at after midnight, of course you aren't going to make the flights successful.

However you missed the point of the post, which is the lack of respect shown by QF management to those outside of BNE, MEL and SYD