Restructuring QFF points earn (Hypothetical)

[deadfish]

TL;DR post - scroll to the bottom if you can't be coughd reading all of this.

There's plenty of negativity on these forums, other forums and media etc. about the QFF program in general - whether it's about terrible burn rates, poor availability, "co-pay" on redemptions, etc. For the most part, these complaints are entirely warranted.

However, earning rates, mostly in discount Y and for higher QFF ranks are top notch and one of the few shiny gold stars in the program. I can't think of many airline programs, anywhere, that offers full 1point/mile on EVERY Y revenue fare. As with the 1,000 point guarantee on not only QF, but also on JQ/3K flights. It leads to (IMO) ridiculous situations, in which a WP flying return to Asia in deep discount Y (that QF gets little, if any, profit from) nets nearly enough points for a JASA redemption on some domestic flights. Or where someone paying $625 for SYD-MEL in J gets a mere 250 points more than someone on a $89 sale fare...or a $39+15 JQ fare. Personally, I get most of the value out of this program from this idiosyncracy - for example, I flew SIN-KUL on 3K many times several months ago when there was a promotion offering 2000 additional points on all international JQ/3K flights...this meant receiving 3000 points per sector in which the fare revenue is somewhere between $0-3!

Yet this is usually ignored by those not satisfied with the QFF program - and often look towards (with envy) other programs that offer lower burn rates at the expense of earning rate on low-revenue fares, for example SQ, CX, etc. For many of these people, it's a terrible idea in terms of value - someone who flies regularly on the golden triangle routes in Y gets FAR more value out of the current QFF program than most other programs, poor burn rates or not.
On the other hand, those who book flexi-Y (and up) more often than not, are likely to be at a disadvantage with QFF compared to rival FF program earning structures.

So, the question is, would you all think a hypothetical restructing, where earn rates at discount and deep-discount Y are cut (or abolished completely, as in the case of CX) in exchange for lower burn rates and/or greater redemption availability, would be good for the airline? For the pessimists out there, can you forsee this as a potential area of QFF that can/will be 'enhanced' away with little compensation?

Let's say the earn structure was restructured to something more like:
0.25/mile earn rate or 250 minimum points for Sale fares
0.5/mile earn rate or 500 minimum points on e-Red deals
1/mile earn rate or 1000 mimum points on Flexi Saver or higher
1.15/mile or 1250 minimum points in PE
1.25/mile or 1500 minimum points in Business
2/mile in First

In exchange for:
25% cut in redemption rates - your preference in how the savings is distributed, in points or "co-pay"
Whatever amount of extra availability, as a result of lower influx of points into the system

Would this be more desirable?

Personally, such restructuring would mean I have no place in maintaining any loyalty with QF, considering the majority of my flying is in discount Y. I would also imagine many others would be in the same position. This does, however, bring QFF in line with most other programs, with the notable exception of US and a few other programs scattered elsewhere.

For the TL;DR: less/no points on discount Y in exchange for lower redemption rates or greater availability - good idea?

 

[dfcatch]

Nice theory but in practice irrelevant IMHO.

1/ the minimum points earn of 1,000 was brought in to sweeten the deal when the program was "enhanced" to miles rather than km. (around 2003 IIRC - Serfty will know precisely). Redemption rates changed for many awards (some favorably, some not so).

2/ IF the program was a pure earn/burn flying program - your idea would have merit.

It's not - it's a Frequent Spender program. Given the massive proportion of points earning attributable to non-flying sources, your suggestion would simply result in less award availability and those who earn from flying would be the ones penalized.

3/ That's why Status Credits are used to determine loyalty rather than points earn.


Sent from AFF Mobile Edition

 

[ozmille]

interesting idea, for me personally this would be acceptable as most of my travel is INT J, as long as the SCs and status bonus stay the same as now
bu I have to agree with dfcatch above that if you bring the required miles for a redemption ticket down there will be less available award seats for the Frequent Flyers...

 

[trippin_the_rift]

Great job. You've suggested a real QF worthy enhancement!
We know who to thank when points get cut for sale fares

But seriously when you look at the thought process behind the min 1,000 points - what it means is everyone (even once a year travellers) can see their points balance grow as they work towards that free trip/toaster from the rewards store. If there is nothing to work towards - no achievement level, or lack of recognition through ongoing milestones (points), the whole gaming mechanic behind QFF falls apart VERY quickly. Just look at how frequent flyers avoid other oneworld airlines travelling to europe when QF is an option. People pay more for QF because they know they'll get a good amount of points.

QFF actually *WANTS* to give out as many points as possible, because that feeds the member to redeem and then earn more. This is how they make teh moneys!
The real money is made/liability is wiped when people redeem for international Y flights (because they are already a fixed cost to the group), or points are expired. Adding a shorter expiry date or increased cost to redeem, or a **blanked out because it's such a great idea*** is a more lucrative way to address the same situation without pissing off millions of frequent flyers that fly on discount Y.

Remember kids, QFF keeps the airline flying. It's not the other way around.

 

[dfcatch]

The other aspect is the product differentiation between QF and JQ with the 2 brand strategy.

One of the points of QF is that as a premium airline you receive inter alia 1,000 points minimum on every flight.

As Trippin aludes to - there are other ways of working the mechanics of the earn/burn rates to reward premium/frequent travelers to achieve similar to what you suggest without the downfalls. I'm not going to publish all those suggestions publicly.

Suffice to say though that I don't support increasing redemption levels


Sent from AFF Mobile Edition

 

[fersea]

One of the best things in business is when you can give a benefit to a customer which they see as beneficial but comes a no or minimal cost to you.

I would be interested to know how many points are never redeemed. I am sure there are occasional flyers who the FF points are a consideration for when they purchase but they rarely redeem or only have enough points for poor value redemptions. QFF have something like 9 million members don't they? I am sure most of them earn less than 10k points per year.

 

[11sjw]

I am sure most of them earn less than 10k points per year.

via flying maybe but not with Credit Card spend added in.

 

[fersea]

via flying maybe but not with Credit Card spend added in.

Even with credit card spend I would imagine. 1) not everyone has a lot of money to spend and 2) not everyone is as organised as those on here.

 

[serfty]

Dunno about being organised.

My Daughter 30+, took an option to join QFF via EDR a few years ago.

With pure Woolies based spend she had garnered 7K+ QFF points in that time. Tacking that onto a return to CNS last month, the family now has over 20K points.

 

[oz_mark]

I think what you are ultimately suggesting is a revaluation of the points. That would be some hit on their books I would think!

 

[Awesom Andy]

Lowering the points required for redemption means the Woolies shoppers are more likely to take up your reward seat.

 

[Archphoto]

The average family (2+2) who spend at Woolies on their FF Mileage Card, may rack up 20K in points, but finding the time, the seats and the cash to offload for taxes, probably means they spend those hard earned FF points on very rare occasions. I'm more inclined to think they'd use those points to buy gifts etc, thinking short-term, rather than long term.

It's those of us who know every FF loophole, airport code, airline code (and know that Amadeus isn't only referring to the composer), who are making the most of what the FF programs are offering.

I'm one of those people who made WP by flying (heavily discounted) Y, travelling to Asia (and further) for business. The SCs I earned (just) made up for being cramped in a sardine can for hours at a time, and the FF points were a nice bonus. IMHO if QF were similar to CX in that the lowest fares earned zilch, I'd be mighty p***** off! I flew for business, the client always wanted the cheapest seats available, and I was expected to be on deck at 7am the following morning of arrival, regardless of what time I'd arrived at night (or even at 3am). The points and SCs were my "reward" for enduring very long hours, time away from family and friends and generally being on call almost 24/7.

They're happy to have people spending their $$$$ using their co-branded cards, and I'm sure they are definitely making some nice $$$$$$$ from it; they seem to invest a ton of cash into FF Spending these days, so there is obviously something there, that makes it worthwhile for them.

It would be interesting to know what % of FF Spenders actually spend their FF points on flights over product redemption - could it be less than we actually think?? (Or God forbid, more?!:shock

 

[samh004]

As I fly a lot of sale and red e-deal fares, this idea would reduce my points balance considerably... and I don't have an issue getting award flights for fairly low costs... sure, some awards are easier than others, but in my case, there's no issue presently. Perhaps you're expecting too much with award flights

 

[ozmille]

It would be interesting to know what % of FF Spenders actually spend their FF points on flights over product redemption - could it be less than we actually think?? (Or God forbid, more?!:shock

The number of people I know that buy stuff at the QF store is quite high, last thing a colleague bought was an iPad for 125500 points... for me that is OW to Europe in J, I was baffled

 

[Archphoto]

The number of people I know that buy stuff at the QF store is quite high, last thing a colleague bought was an iPad for 125500 points... for me that is OW to Europe in J, I was baffled

I have to admit, I purchased an iPod, but didn't blow any points on the shipping - charged it to a QF CC instead. But at the time I had about 250000 points and had no time to burn them on pleasure flights, so I spent it on something that would make all the whY travel a little more bearable. (And I picked them back up pretty quick, with all the flying I was doing.)

Won't use them on a QF Store spend again, unless I find myself in a similar position, and even then I'd probably think 5x before I did, calculate where I could fly for the same amount of points, and then probably *not* spend it there after all.

I guess it all comes down to what people want from the FF CC spend - and in many cases, being able to purchase something that would normally be out of reach (and last longer than a flight), is what people actually want, so they spend it on product, rather than a flight. Which is good for all of us who want to get award seating - the FF Spenders aren't taking up as many of the available seats as we thought! :mrgreen:

 

[fersea]

Of course if you redeem a gift that is the end of it there is no more to pay. If you redeem a flight even apart from the taxes, unless you are going to fly straight home again, there is more to pay. Not everyone has the money to spend on holidays and I am sure that for some frequent business travellers they would much rather stay home in their leisure time than get on another flight.