Reduction in Transfer Rates to Velocity/Krisflyer

[kamchatsky]

Thank you everyone for complaining to Citibank, and threatening with legal proceedings. This indeed has forced Citibank to reverse their unfair changes.

I've just transferred my Citibank Signature and Platinum balances to Krisflyer. I know about 3 year hard expiry, and I do not know when I will fly Singapore Airlines for next few years. But I have a lot of Velocity points right now (thanks to the Velocity Amex offer earlier) so I will transfer those unused Krisflyer points to Velocity account in 3 years time if needed be.

Whilst not everyone likes the 3 year hard expiry of KF points, the fact that KF points is still so valuable means it is worth it. It is up to the user to ensure those points are used up before the 3 years mark. At least now there is a escape route to Velocity if needed be, even with the 1.35 penalty.

 

[DaveB]

Still amazed how this all was discovered and dealt with in under a week!!
Maybe there is some hope for Citi.
From past experience, I had been careful with Citi basically spending their points bank before any others but still got caught with 6 months points earn. Thankfully, would imagine the other banks will see the fallout from this and 90 days notice becomes standard practice.
Love the idea about taking on Singapore Air for the 3 year expiry suggested by Cruiser. Would also like everyone to raise concern with your redemption nominees being limited to a maximum of five at anyone time, nominees must remain on your list for a minimum of 6 months and involve a 3,000 points / US$30 fee for removing each nominee from your passenger list.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

FWIW I personally won't be making any hasty transfers - I think it would be prudent to just let the dust settle and assess all scenarios.

I do think Citi will at some point not too far down the track reinstigate these changes to the conversion rates - but they will indeed be giving the required 90 notice.

This will give all of us plenty to time to fully investigate 'best usage' of Citi rewards. Personally I might shunt to several FF programs rather than all to SQ.

Might I suggest that ALL Singapore Airlines KrisFlyer members send off an email to SQ regarding the 3 year expiration period for points. SQ are quite out of date here - probably the only major top tier carrier who still have this archaic system in place. Who knows - people power brought sufficient pressure to Citi to change their minds - a whole bundle of emails to SQ feedback might possibly bring sufficient pressure also.

SQ feedback email address here - [email protected] - SQ might already be considering this to bring themselves into 21st century - or they may never change - but in last few days we have all witnessed the power of the people!

And while they're at it... why don't they review access to F class award seats and limit it to Kris Flyer Gold or PPS? Talk about killing the goose that lays the golden egg.

 

[Cruiser Elite]

Talk about killing the goose that lays the golden egg.

Talk about it MEL - all opinions welcomed here.

 

[dein_gesicht]

Do you have to be related in order to transfer KF points? I have about 400k and probably look to gumtree to sell them

 

[edman]

Just got a call from the RM who I spoke with on Monday, to advise of the change back. I was surprised as I was not waiting on a call back so they must just be working through the list. Honored the $350 reduction in fee and the 20000 points compo despite the reinstatement of conversion rates to pre 31 Oct.

She also advised that I will receive written communication in the coming months of the conversion rate changes, as they will still be going ahead, but the written communication will be providing notice of the changes that will come into effect. No mention of whether it would be 90 days, but confirms the thoughts as expected that the changes will still be made in due course.

I will keep the card now due to the benefits I receive outweighing (by some margin) the $350 fee, but it will be used minimally and favoring Amex instead.

 

[fkcn]

FWIW I personally won't be making any hasty transfers - I think it would be prudent to just let the dust settle and assess all scenarios.

I do think Citi will at some point not too far down the track reinstigate these changes to the conversion rates - but they will indeed be giving the required 90 notice.

This will give all of us plenty to time to fully investigate 'best usage' of Citi rewards. Personally I might shunt to several FF programs rather than all to SQ.

Might I suggest that ALL Singapore Airlines KrisFlyer members send off an email to SQ regarding the 3 year expiration period for points. SQ are quite out of date here - probably the only major top tier carrier who still have this archaic system in place. Who knows - people power brought sufficient pressure to Citi to change their minds - a whole bundle of emails to SQ feedback might possibly bring sufficient pressure also.

SQ feedback email address here - [email protected] - SQ might already be considering this to bring themselves into 21st century - or they may never change - but in last few days we have all witnessed the power of the people!

Etihad are even worse - points expire in 2 yrs, though goes up 6 months with each status tier. Definitely a deterrent to transferring points to them, including new FlyBuys option. If only Coles had paired with VA.

 

[kpc]

Might I suggest that ALL Singapore Airlines KrisFlyer members send off an email to SQ regarding the 3 year expiration period for points. SQ are quite out of date here - probably the only major top tier carrier who still have this archaic system in place. Who knows - people power brought sufficient pressure to Citi to change their minds - a whole bundle of emails to SQ feedback might possibly bring sufficient pressure also.

SQ feedback email address here - [email protected] - SQ might already be considering this to bring themselves into 21st century - or they may never change - but in last few days we have all witnessed the power of the people!

And while they're at it... why don't they review access to F class award seats and limit it to Kris Flyer Gold or PPS? Talk about killing the goose that lays the golden egg.

I wonder if Sq are regretting linking with Va so you can TF Velocity pts to Krisflyer miles at 1.35:1 ratio INSTANTANEOUSLY...I wonder if we would get any notice if this exchange rate changes (for the worse) or even ceases or (most likely) is capped...

 

[burmans]

I know about 3 year hard expiry, and I do not know when I will fly Singapore Airlines for next few years.

While SQ is obviously the best use of SQ points it's not the only use. For example you can fly Air New Zealand to NZ/South Pacific in Y for 25K points return which is better than either VA or QF. Not necessarily an example most will want to use but just shows there are other viable ways to use SQ points.

 

[kamchatsky]

While SQ is obviously the best use of SQ points it's not the only use. For example you can fly Air New Zealand to NZ/South Pacific in Y for 25K points return which is better than either VA or QF. Not necessarily an example most will want to use but just shows there are other viable ways to use SQ points.

Yes I am aware of this. I used KF miles twice in the past to redeem to Tahiti for 35K miles on NZ J, which is absolute bargain. However NZ has absolutely stopped releasing J awards, and only very limited Y awards these days to Pacific so it is hard to use it on NZ these days.

 

[CJEMNMAC]

While SQ is obviously the best use of SQ points it's not the only use. For example you can fly Air New Zealand to NZ/South Pacific in Y for 25K points return which is better than either VA or QF. Not necessarily an example most will want to use but just shows there are other viable ways to use SQ points.

I particularly like flights like CNS - MEL in J for 21k KF each way on Virgin .........when the same route in J on Virgin is 33800 Velocity each way...

 

[burmans]

Yes I am aware of this. I used KF miles twice in the past to redeem to Tahiti for 35K miles on NZ J, which is absolute bargain. However NZ has absolutely stopped releasing J awards, and only very limited Y awards these days to Pacific so it is hard to use it on NZ these days.

Hard yes, impossible no. But then have you tried using VA points to NZ or South Pacific recently?

 

[kamchatsky]

Hard yes, impossible no. But then have you tried using VA points to NZ or South Pacific recently?

No as I don't have need to go to Pacific right now. For NZ there are plenty of options anyway (e.g. QF/EK). I think unless I go to Cook Islands or Tahiti I probably won't use KF miles. I would probably try to use my KF miles for Business or Suites to HKG etc.

 

[daveozsydney]

Fantastic effort everyone!!!
This time last year, Citi were sending out invites to Otto's to launch the Prestige card.
Maybe they could throw another party for aggrieved Citi card holders but me thinks none of us will have time transiting thru Singapore for the foreseeable future.

Yes, perhaps the equivalent of Otto's in Singapore would suit us all

 

[daveozsydney]

Very happy to play my part in getting a good result!



Even this clause may not be legal. Section 24(1) of the Australian Consumer Law prohibits unfair contract terms. A term will be considered an unfair term and thus void if:

(a) it would cause a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations arising under the contract; and (b) it is not reasonably necessary in order to protect the legitimate interests of the party who would be advantaged by the term; and
(c) it would cause detriment (whether financial or otherwise) to a party if it were to be applied or relied on.

Section 24(4) places the burden on the party seeking the advantage of the term (i.e. Citi) to prove that it is reasonably necessary. I still do not see why it is necessary that Citibank have the right to devalue the conversion rate without notice.




Too bad we didn't get the amusement/pleasure from flooding Citi with multiple people sending in that letter! But good to have the points restored.

Did anyone read the terms and conditions popup when transferring points today?

This is where you must accept the new terms and conditions before they let you transfer, and this is where the magical 3.6.4 lies

So once you have done a single transfer they can assert that you have agreed to a change in the rules without notice "3.6.4. We may change the Points Transfer program rules including participation of travel loyalty program providers, regulations, policies, benefits, conditions of participation or points/mileage levels (if applicable), in whole or in part at any time with or without notice. "

I haven't transferred points yet so I don't know if that is new or recently added perhaps post 1st November... but I doubt that would be classed as a fair condition otherwise they don't need 10 pages of terms and conditions, they just need the one clause...

Wondered what everyone else thinks of this...

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Did anyone read the terms and conditions popup when transferring points today?

This is where you must accept the new terms and conditions before they let you transfer, and this is where the magical 3.6.4 lies

So once you have done a single transfer they can assert that you have agreed to a change in the rules without notice "3.6.4. We may change the Points Transfer program rules including participation of travel loyalty program providers, regulations, policies, benefits, conditions of participation or points/mileage levels (if applicable), in whole or in part at any time with or without notice. "

I haven't transferred points yet so I don't know if that is new or recently added perhaps post 1st November... but I doubt that would be classed as a fair condition otherwise they don't need 10 pages of terms and conditions, they just need the one clause...

Wondered what everyone else thinks of this...

I mentioned this in my post above (how they might make the term 'transparent')... it may be enough. But no real way of knowing for sure until reviewed by a court.

 

[VAG newbie]

Did anyone read the terms and conditions popup when transferring points today?

This is where you must accept the new terms and conditions before they let you transfer, and this is where the magical 3.6.4 lies

So once you have done a single transfer they can assert that you have agreed to a change in the rules without notice "3.6.4. We may change the Points Transfer program rules including participation of travel loyalty program providers, regulations, policies, benefits, conditions of participation or points/mileage levels (if applicable), in whole or in part at any time with or without notice. "

I haven't transferred points yet so I don't know if that is new or recently added perhaps post 1st November... but I doubt that would be classed as a fair condition otherwise they don't need 10 pages of terms and conditions, they just need the one clause...

Wondered what everyone else thinks of this...

I'm no lawyer but logic is telling me that since the new clause was put up yesterday, and you clicked "I have read and agree to the T&C of CitiReward program..." Then you accept the new T&C

 

[Buzzard]

I better join KrisFlyer quick smart :shock:

 

[CJEMNMAC]

Had my call back about an hour ago and they guy was very apologetic about the situation and gave me the standard Citi are listening to customer concerns etc etc and we appreciate feedback etc etc ... I did not give him a hard time because he could not really answer any specific T&C questions..

The end result from the call was, I left with no doubt " the intended" change of 1 November is not far away with some sort of notification to all customers.

If this is the case, at least proper notification enables customers to make the choice to stay or go

 

[daveozsydney]

I'm no lawyer but logic is telling me that since the new clause was put up yesterday, and you clicked "I have read and agree to the T&C of CitiReward program..." Then you accept the new T&C

Did it definitely go up yesterday? Do you have any proof of this? The phone rep I spoke to wasn't aware of it and asked for a screenshot..

Also said no compensation in points would be issued and wasn't aware that any points had been given in compensation. I was after 30K points for everyone for all the wasted time.
I have heard from people who received 10K points but I'm obviously on the 'don't want to keep' list in their CRM system now!