reality bites

[tgh]

Sadly we have decided to dump our North and South american oddyssey. The costs just overran fiscal prudence... great sadness at chateau tgh.

One of the most substantial penalties is the 11% Cancellation fee for our DCIR29SA. ( Well it is actually more than that after the ta and the consolidator charge service fees for cancellation )

I'm currently fencing with the ta over the one world wording .. ( the old terms ).
I read clause 16(b)(3) as allowing the non refundable portion .. ie the 11% as creditable towards another one world booking.

Has anyone actually done this .. and are there any tips or tricks ???

 

[Dave Noble]

The 10% +1% cancellation fee is not able to be applied to another ticket

The fare rules don't seem to leave any ambiguity

CANCELLATIONS ANY TIME CANCELLATIONS PERMITTED FOR CANCEL/NO-SHOW/REFUND. 
NOTE - FORFEIT 10PCT OF THE TICKETED FARE FOR ECONOMY CLASS FARES. 
- FORFEIT 5PCT OF THE TICKETED FARE FOR BUSINESS/ FIRST CLASS FARES. 
- EXCEPTION - 11PCT INCLUDING GST EX AUSTRALIA FOR ECONOMY CLASS FARES. 
- 5.5PCT INCLUDING GST EX AUSTRALIA FOR BUSINESS/ FIRST CLASS FARES.

For a business ticket, it should be 5.5% rather than 11% though ( unless penalty has changed recently )

Dave

 

[tgh]

Thanks Dave .. sorry I didn't make it clearer..
The old rules are different.. I asked them which rules they wanted to play by at the start.. because of the 5.5% -v- 11%.. and they said the rules that applied when the booking was made.

Interestingly enough the old rules have now evaporated from the one world website , replaced by the new iteration
Without a copy , one could be at a real disadvantage

The ta and consolidator have a different wording to the published rules .. both new and old ...

 

[Dave Noble]

Under the rules for penalties before, I haven't seen anything that suggests that the fare may be used without penalty to another ticket

Dave

 

[drron]

A real shame that you have to miss out.Getting caught by the pay now to avoid a price rise obviously makes it even more disappointing.
Just one thought-someone ? the consolidator,has had your money for nearly 6 months now.In an account that could have earnt them $300 in that time at 5% or $450 if reducing an overdraft balance at a conservative 7.5% rate.Then they charge you a fee.Hmm.

 

[NM]

When was the ticket issued?

Looking at a copy of the Circle Pacific fare rules dated 1eth December 2007, I note the following regarding cancellation penalties:

(B) CANCELLATIONS AND REFUNDS
(1). Before Departure:
1. Before ticket issuance: Full refund
2. After ticket issuance: Cancellation/No show Forfeit: 10 percent (Ex Australia 11% -
Australian GST Inclusive) of the fare paid if the first international sector is cancelled.

EXCEPTIONS: Full refund in the case of:
1. Certified death of the passenger/member of passenger's immediate family.
2. Passenger/accompanying member of passenger's immediate family/accompanying
passenger is refused an official travel document, entry permit or visa. A copy of the official
written refusal must be attached to the refund request.

(2). After Departure: The refund, if any, will be the difference between the fare paid and the
applicable fare for the journey completed.

(3). At any time: The non-refundable amount may be used as credit towards payment of any full mileage or oneworld/Global explorer fare providing those conditions are met.
NOTE: At all times the original non-refundable amount remains non-refundable, the new ticket and any subsequent reissues must be annotated 'NONREF/APEX'.
-----------
Local Service fees may apply

Are those the rules under which your ticket was purchased?

I will attach the PDF file for reference.

 

[tgh]

Yep thats them..
Not sure if the pain in my hip pocket is giving me a comprehension problem, but I read them as allowing a credit if we make another forward booking and cancel the present one.
Of course they might want to keep the whole 22k...that's where my allusion to tips 'n tricks came from.

We have also cancelled a Galapagos trip on Celebrity Xpedition.. paid in full months ago at 92c aud/usd.
They will only refund ( less four hundred bucks penalty) at the aud amount paid.. no profit taking allowed.
They have been very kind :evil: in offering to hold the usd dosh against a future booking.

Of course if my super fund keeps bleeding at the present rate . I might be back at work next year ..

 

[drron]

Yep thats them..
Not sure if the pain in my hip pocket is giving me a comprehension problem, but I read them as allowing a credit if we make another forward booking and cancel the present one.
Of course they might want to keep the whole 22k...that's where my allusion to tips 'n tricks came from.

We have also cancelled a Galapagos trip on Celebrity Xpedition.. paid in full months ago at 92c aud/usd.
They will only refund ( less four hundred bucks penalty) at the aud amount paid.. no profit taking allowed.
They have been very kind :evil: in offering to hold the usd dosh against a future booking.

Of course if my super fund keeps bleeding at the present rate . I might be back at work next year ..

You really are being hit arent you.What a pity missing the Galapagos.
As to the no profit taking allowed someone is getting the FX profit just not you.If you paid Celebrity direct they would have converted it fairly soon to USD so now they outlay a lot less USD to repay you.
Anyway I retired 2 years ago but doing this in my lunch break-I did plan part time work-just not quite as much as planned now for 2009.

 

[NM]

Yep thats them..
Not sure if the pain in my hip pocket is giving me a comprehension problem, but I read them as allowing a credit if we make another forward booking and cancel the present one.
Of course they might want to keep the whole 22k...that's where my allusion to tips 'n tricks came from.

Although its not said explicitly, I expect in order to invoke the "used as credit towards payment of any full mileage or oneworld/Global explorer fare" rule, you will need to make the new booking immediately. I don't believe they have a provision to hold that amount in credit for use at some future point in time should you later wish to purchase another similar fare.

 

[tgh]

Yes . I understand that I need to make another booking.. really looking for someone who has actually done it !!

The sticky bit about one world tickets is the need to book and date the first leg.. and then not to be able to change it without rebooking.

The rules refer to a full mileage ticket as well as explorer.. does that mean a normal long haul ticket ie syd/lhr etc... or are they referring to other one world products such as circle products.

 

[Travel Guru]

A real shame that you have to miss out.Getting caught by the pay now to avoid a price rise obviously makes it even more disappointing.
Just one thought-someone ? the consolidator,has had your money for nearly 6 months now.In an account that could have earnt them $300 in that time at 5% or $450 if reducing an overdraft balance at a conservative 7.5% rate.Then they charge you a fee.Hmm.

Why would the consolidator have had the money sitting in an account earning interest? The money would have passed over to the plating carrier within a week or so of ticketing, so its the airline who's been "sitting" on the money.

I don't see why the agent and consolidator shouldn't charge a service fee for performing the work involved with applying and administering a refund, they are after all performing a service and it's not the agent or consolidator who chose to cancel the ticket.

Just my 2c, which as you know may be tainted with the brush of bias.

TG

 

[NM]

I have cancelled a DONE4 and rebooked a DONE3 immediately. In that case I was given a full refund of the DONE4 and charged the full amount for the DONE3. But I don't know what cancellation penalties applied at the time to those fares. I suspect none.

 

[drron]

Sorry Travel Guru that post was done in my lunch hour and I admit to not thinking it through.But I did say someone ? in my defence.Yes of course it would be the airline that has derived benefit from the money for 6 months.
Another thought though-why should it be 11% deduction from Australia for GST when GST is not charged on overseas tickets is it?(0r 5.5% as the case may be).
And I promise I do nearly always use a regular shop front TA for my airline tickets.Very good service and always get notified of good specials-hence flying BA F in 11 days time.

 

[NM]

Another thought though-why should it be 11% deduction from Australia for GST when GST is not charged on overseas tickets is it?(0r 5.5% as the case may be).

Because the penalty is a service fee and not an international airfare. The service is delivered in Australia so GST applies to the service fee.

 

[drron]

Because the penalty is a service fee and not an international airfare. The service is delivered in Australia so GST applies to the service fee.

So I will celebrate my 1000th post with a silly question-seems appropriate.
If the ticket has been issued by AA,LAN etc is this then still a service delivered in Australia?Seems as though the poor consumer is always the bunny.If yes then the previous answer re John Hewson being a fruit cake is even more appropriate(and yes I know he didnt get the chance to put his particular stupidity into reality.)

 

[NM]

So I will celebrate my 1000th post with a silly question-seems appropriate.

No so silly really, especially for a milestone post!

If the ticket has been issued by AA,LAN etc is this then still a service delivered in Australia?Seems as though the poor consumer is always the bunny.If yes then the previous answer re John Hewson being a fruit cake is even more appropriate(and yes I know he didnt get the chance to put his particular stupidity into reality.)

This does become more tricky with e-ticketing. But the fare you pay for these products is based on two things:

• The country of origin
• The country from which the ticket is purchased

The fare paid is the higher of the two countries involved. This is why most its most common to issue the ticket in the country of origin. So if the ticket was in fact issued AA in the USA, you would be charged the higher of the AUS and USA fares. But AA can in fact issue the ticket in Australia for you, hence requiring you to pay via convoluted methods to AA in Australia. So since the ticket was issued in Australia, the cancellation process happens in Australia and hence its a service provided in Australia and attracts GST.

In the days of paper tickets, you had to collect the ticket from a ticket office in the country of issue (or convince them to post it to you).

 

[drron]

No so silly really, especially for a milestone post!


This does become more tricky with e-ticketing. But the fare you pay for these products is based on two things:

• The country of origin
• The country from which the ticket is purchased

The fare paid is the higher of the two countries involved. This is why most its most common to issue the ticket in the country of origin. So if the ticket was in fact issued AA in the USA, you would be charged the higher of the AUS and USA fares. But AA can in fact issue the ticket in Australia for you, hence requiring you to pay via convoluted methods to AA in Australia. So since the ticket was issued in Australia, the cancellation process happens in Australia and hence its a service provided in Australia and attracts GST.

In the days of paper tickets, you had to collect the ticket from a ticket office in the country of issue (or convince them to post it to you).

Are you sure that in a previous life you werent john Hewson?

 

[Starship]

Are you sure that in a previous life you werent john Hewson?

Lol. At least NM shows some logic amongst the rhetoric.

In any circumstance, if my old days advising TA's has relevance, if the TA was 'holding the funds' they would actually be sitting in the industry trust account, so the TA would have no benefit from the interest, or for that matter any currency gain - but it would be accruing towards supporting travellers in the event of a TA collapse.

 

[NM]

Are you sure that in a previous life you werent john Hewson?

Not that I am aware of

 

[medhead]

I don't see why the agent and consolidator shouldn't charge a service fee for performing the work involved with applying and administering a refund, they are after all performing a service and it's not the agent or consolidator who chose to cancel the ticket.

Do the agent and consolidator get the service fee? Isn't it a OW fee, under the T&C. I assumed this would be collected by OW and split between the airlines or something.