QFFF Status credits for JAL flights

[jpp42]

Hi there,

I'm a bit of a newbie, can anyone explain why I get only 15 SC's for SYD-NRT on JAL? I've taken two return trips to Japan recently and it's a bit frustrating when the same city pair on Qantas is something 40 to 60 SC's depending on booking class. When a Jetstar flight to Melbourne that I only paid $90 for is worth 10 SC's, why is a return that cost A$1600 only 30 SC's total? There's no codeshare option is there?

Since Qantas no longer offers a daytime flight to Tokyo from SYD, I refuse to take redeyes in both directions, which is the main reason I have been using JAL. They are a OneWorld partner and I have Gold on QF, so at least I get the lounge access. As alternatives, on QF it's possible to go via BNE, but this means a super early start in SYD, and why add a connection when it's not required. Maybe I will do so for the SC's next time, as it seems like Japan is a frequent destination for work, but I'm wondering if anyone has any better suggestions.

 

[BacchusMarsh]

on QF it's possible to go via BNE, but this means a super early start in SYD, and why add a connection when it's not required. Maybe I will do so for the SC's next time

And there you have why QF (re-)designed the system that way.

 

[blackcat20]

QF penalise you for travelling with a partner airline when they also fly that route. Simpler and fairer apparently\.

 

[opusman]

why add a connection when it's not required.

Why fly direct when you can connect?

 

[jpp42]

Why fly direct when you can connect?

Ha, I guess this is sacrilege on this board, but I am actually interested in getting to my destination as quickly as possible. I just don't want to be leaving something on the table if there are ways to get better SC earn that I'm missing.

I still don't understand why QF25 SYD-HND has the timing it does - the 5:15 am arrival is positively awful. Hotels in Japan generally don't allow early check-in, and at least as SG there's no lounge on arrival access that I'm aware of. So you've got no way to get a shower, unless you book and pay for an extra night at your hotel. Plus the flight isn't really long enough for a decent night's sleep (I can only sleep decently on 12+hr flights, which gives you about 8 hrs sleep time).

And with departure not until that evening, how is this good for fleet utilisation? Wouldn't it make more sense for the northbound flight to be in the daytime, allowing an early evening arrival and then quick turnaround for the redeye departure to the south?

 

[moa999]

Ha, I guess this is sacrilege on this board, but I am actually interested in getting to my destination as quickly as possible. I just don't want to be leaving something on the table if there are ways to get better SC earn that I'm missing.

I still don't understand why QF25 SYD-HND has the timing it does - the 5:15 am arrival is positively awful.

And with departure not until that evening, how is this good for fleet utilisation? Wouldn't it make more sense for the northbound flight to be in the daytime, allowing an early evening arrival and then quick turnaround for the redeye departure to the south?

All about slots and business traveller preference.
Slots at HND are as rare as hen's teeth - you take what you can get. And I suspect many Oz business travellers like the morning arrival and in many cases do a day of meetings then fly back that night.

Agree the SC earn bites, but it is the Qantas FF program, not a oneworld program and it's a bit of a carrot/stick to make you more loyal to Qantas

 

[TomVexille]

All about slots and business traveller preference.
Slots at HND are as rare as hen's teeth - you take what you can get. And I suspect many Oz business travellers like the morning arrival and in many cases do a day of meetings then fly back that night.

Agree the SC earn bites, but it is the Qantas FF program, not a oneworld program and it's a bit of a carrot/stick to make you more loyal to Qantas

To add to that, HND allows international arrivals and departures between 11pm and 6am

 

[Matt_Sullivan]

There are public showers in the International arrival hall at Haneda. Open 24 hours. Yen 1,030 for 30 minutes. Towels, toiletries provided

I can't give the link (fewer than 10 posts) but a quick google will bring it up

 

[eminere]

I can't give the link (fewer than 10 posts) but a quick google will bring it up

Here you go: link

 

[123dd]

One more thing that i have noticed on JAL int'l flight is that I class earns as Economy... I class on both CX and MH earn at business rate.

 

[eminere]

One more thing that i have noticed on JAL int'l flight is that I class earns as Economy... I class on both CX and MH earn at business rate.

That's not quite right. Depending on the route, I class also potentially earns at the Flexible Economy rate on MH.

 

[123dd]

That's not quite right. Depending on the route, I class also potentially earns at the Flexible Economy rate on MH.

Sorry, i wasn't being precise enough. My point is that out of all Business fare classes, JAL I class is the only one that got singled out like that. MH CDJZ are treated the same way as their I.

I got myself booked into SIN-HND JL in I class, expecting earning 100SC, only to find myself earning a quarter of that.... feeling really gutted.

 

[Himeno]

I still don't understand why QF25 SYD-HND has the timing it does - the 5:15 am arrival is positively awful. Hotels in Japan generally don't allow early check-in, and at least as SG there's no lounge on arrival access that I'm aware of. So you've got no way to get a shower, unless you book and pay for an extra night at your hotel. Plus the flight isn't really long enough for a decent night's sleep (I can only sleep decently on 12+hr flights, which gives you about 8 hrs sleep time).

And with departure not until that evening, how is this good for fleet utilisation? Wouldn't it make more sense for the northbound flight to be in the daytime, allowing an early evening arrival and then quick turnaround for the redeye departure to the south?

HND is one of the busiest airports in Asia. It was the busiest until a few years ago when PEK overtook it.
Long haul international flights have limited slot allowances and HND is not part of the open skies air service agreements Japan makes. HND slots are allocated on a per country basis either day (0600-2200) or night (2200-0600). 50% of slots allocated to a country are for Japanese carriers, 50% for the other country carriers. Japan assigns which slot type each country gets.
Australia has 14 night slots. 7 are used by ANA, 7 by QF. These slots only allow for arrival and departure from HND to occur between 10pm and 6am.

In order for QF SYD-HND to be day time, it would have to depart around lunchtime to arrive HND just after 10pm with the return timed to depart HND at midnight.


When did QF have a SYD-TYO day flight? Both the old QF21/22 to NRT and the newer QF25/26 to HND have been overnight both directions for as long as I can remember.

 

[jpp42]

HND is one of the busiest airports in Asia. It was the busiest until a few years ago when PEK overtook it.
Long haul international flights have limited slot allowances and HND is not part of the open skies air service agreements Japan makes. HND slots are allocated on a per country basis either day (0600-2200) or night (2200-0600). 50% of slots allocated to a country are for Japanese carriers, 50% for the other country carriers. Japan assigns which slot type each country gets.
Australia has 14 night slots. 7 are used by ANA, 7 by QF. These slots only allow for arrival and departure from HND to occur between 10pm and 6am.

In order for QF SYD-HND to be day time, it would have to depart around lunchtime to arrive HND just after 10pm with the return timed to depart HND at midnight.


When did QF have a SYD-TYO day flight? Both the old QF21/22 to NRT and the newer QF25/26 to HND have been overnight both directions for as long as I can remember.

Thanks for the detailed information. I thought for sure I used a daytime flight before and my boss said he had in the past also, but we didn't get involved in Japan until recently so probably our memories are mistaken. Too many flights to too many places lately...

It looks like going forward if I'm going to make WP, I really need to just suck it up and transit via Brisbane (sorry, but 5am arrival prior to a day of meetings is never going to work for me, though I do appreciate the link to the showers). I really find it interesting that enough business travellers can deal with this arrangement, and that the fleet utilisation issue isn't a deal-breaker for Qantas - what does their plane do all day in HND? If the airport is so busy how does it even have space to keep it? But obviously the timing works for enough people, I guess it's different if you're in business class and get a better quality sleep.

I'll gladly use the HND-SYD flight on the return, at least then I can have a sleep at home after arriving.

 

[clod]

Sorry, i wasn't being precise enough. My point is that out of all Business fare classes, JAL I class is the only one that got singled out like that. MH CDJZ are treated the same way as their I.

I got myself booked into SIN-HND JL in I class, expecting earning 100SC, only to find myself earning a quarter of that.... feeling really gutted.

Yeah, me and the apprentices too. It's a learning curve.

 

[bsb]

I still don't understand why QF25 SYD-HND has the timing it does - the 5:15 am arrival is positively awful. Hotels in Japan generally don't allow early check-in?

slots partly but Japanese get short holidays and go to work after arrival for a ten day trip and also it's for business travellers who get straight to work. Them Japanese do it tough compared to us

 

[Himeno]

I really find it interesting that enough business travellers can deal with this arrangement, and that the fleet utilisation issue isn't a deal-breaker for Qantas - what does their plane do all day in HND? If the airport is so busy how does it even have space to keep it? But obviously the timing works for enough people, I guess it's different if you're in business class and get a better quality sleep.

The QF flight is also often booked out (and oversold) by Japanese school groups. About 90% of the time I've flown QF to/from Tokyo and aren't booked in J, I get an op up due to Y being oversold for school groups.
The fleet utilisation issue with 2 aircraft required for the SYD-TYO flight for daily flights is something they've done for Tokyo for quite some time. Even the old PER-NRT flights had a 767 sitting at NRT all day between flights.

The parking space issue is what I first thought of when I heard QF was starting flights to HND with the aircraft parking all day.
They park it outside some hangers at the parameter of the airfield north of the international terminal and on the other side of runway 04/22. It is as far way from the domestic terminals (and the bulk of the traffic) as they can get and still be within the airfield. Other aircraft have been parked there (such as CX), but I think QF sits there the longest.

 

[Mattg]

As others have mentioned, the reason for QF25 and QF26 both being overnight is largely because overnight flights are preferred by Japanese tourists and business travellers. QF believe they can get a better yield that way (particularly as the 747 is premium cabin heavy) despite the poor utilisation and costs of parking a 747 in HND for 15 hours every day.

FWIW, the aircraft utilisation is actually not that bad. A 747 arrives into SYD late in the afternoon from JNB 6 days/week and SCL 4 days/week. This is too late for the aircraft to turn around and operate an evening flight to most destinations that the 747 flies, but it can do a quick turnaround and fly onwards to HND that evening. If not for this flight, the aircraft would probably just sit overnight in SYD anyway.

I agree that the SC earn on JL is bad. If you're after a daytime flight to Tokyo, you may consider taking QF61 via BNE on your next trip. As a Gold QF member you'll also get to try out Qantas' new J lounge in Brisbane.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

Sorry, i wasn't being precise enough. My point is that out of all Business fare classes, JAL I class is the only one that got singled out like that. MH CDJZ are treated the same way as their I.

If choose to fly MH in CDJZ from or to Aust EDIT: and even UK to KUL, you will earn at premY rate of QF SC earn. Other MH routes that do not involve Aust flying in MH CDJZ will earn at the relevant QF SC earn (business rates).
Ie, low bow.