QF Engineers set to strike !

[Platy]

Ask many ex AN LAME how they feel about this ...

Sure - do we have any such contributors?

(I don't know any "ex" AN LAMES personally only a very very senior one at QF who does not have a lot of respect for senior management).

 

[Mal]

Interesting opinion piece at the Australian. Author unknown though.

Union must get real | The Australian

Striking engineers could make themselves redundant
AT a time when record fuel prices are forcing Qantas and Jetstar to cut flights and lift fares, striking members of the Australian Licensed Aircraft Engineers Association are in danger of engineering themselves out of jobs. Yesterday's news that the airline's management will try to bypass the engineers permanently by increasing the amount of maintenance work done offshore saw a continuation of the stoppages, causing the cancellation of 35 domestic flights and delayed international flights.

Caving in and paying the 5 per cent being demanded would be disastrous for Qantas, and the airline should stand firm. It has delivered steady, 3per cent rises to most staff for the past seven years, as well as bonuses. Its staff are covered by nine other unions, most with the capacity to disrupt operations, and the pressure of flow-on claims would be intense. The Transport Workers Union is already gearing up to present its own claim.

Funny enough, the article could have been written by me. My views on the topic are extremely similar to that expressed in the article.

 

[Fluid-Flyer]

Okay, so where's the middle ground in all this posturing. As it is becoming apparent that neither group will back down?

How are both sides going to find a solution and save face? (And before the end of this week please.)

 

[rhjames]

Okay, so where's the middle ground in all this posturing. As it is becoming apparent that neither group will back down?

How are both sides going to find a solution and save face? (And before the end of this week please.)

Perhaps 4% and no super. Cost Qantas about he same, workers get more than the current offer in their pockets now. Future claims from other unions will be justified at this level as CPI has now moved up. Both sides are seen to have a win.

 

[maninblack]

Where is the government in all this? The unions are part of the Labor machine. The government is not only a protector of Qantas but also a huge client of the airline.

Seems that economically there are thousands of Australians being affected by this in many different ways, not to mention those who are simply being inconvenienced.

Time for Rudd and his IR people to step up here and get something resolved in the national interest, it is part of their job. I don't doubt that something is in motion behind closed doors but they seem to be dragging the chain.

 

[Mal]

Seems that economically there are thousands of Australians being affected by this in many different ways, not to mention those who are simply being inconvenienced.

Yep, this strike is costing the economy a huge amount of money in lost time. Qantas won't say how much the strike is costing them, but it would be considerable (phone calls to affected pax, overnight accom where appropriate, cancellations, staff in wrong cities, lost utilisation of planes, loss of customer confidence ... and the list goes on).

 

[jpk]

There is a thread on pprune listing major delays, until I read that I wasn't aware just how many long haul flights were being delayed - and I mean really delayed, as in over 12 hours, or next day even. The media has been talking about domestic cancellations and delays, but not made much noise about the long haul disruptions (could this be due to advertising spend? hmmm). I am very glad I have no long haul QF flying coming up soon.

I feel a lot of sympathy for the LAMEs, the increase is less than CPI and they haven't had a payrise for several years now, whereas many of us corporates get CPI every year. But the timing is all wrong for them - record oil prices, aircraft being grounded, airlines in desperate situations etc. Sure QF is still going to make a big profit this year, but the union is losing the media battle, and public opinion battle. QF has very good PR and media operators, whereas the union is struggling to get their message across in a clear cohesive way. Every interview and report I have seen, QF come across as professional and determined, whereas the union spokesman comes across as an amateur without a clue.

 

[dragonman]

I beg to differ. Qantas makes huge profits. I think sharing the wealth is as justified as the union spokesman claims.

There is a thread on pprune listing major delays, until I read that I wasn't aware just how many long haul flights were being delayed - and I mean really delayed, as in over 12 hours, or next day even. The media has been talking about domestic cancellations and delays, but not made much noise about the long haul disruptions (could this be due to advertising spend? hmmm). I am very glad I have no long haul QF flying coming up soon.

I feel a lot of sympathy for the LAMEs, the increase is less than CPI and they haven't had a payrise for several years now, whereas many of us corporates get CPI every year. But the timing is all wrong for them - record oil prices, aircraft being grounded, airlines in desperate situations etc. Sure QF is still going to make a big profit this year, but the union is losing the media battle, and public opinion battle. QF has very good PR and media operators, whereas the union is struggling to get their message across in a clear cohesive way. Every interview and report I have seen, QF come across as professional and determined, whereas the union spokesman comes across as an amateur without a clue.

 

[jpk]

I beg to differ. Qantas makes huge profits. I think sharing the wealth is as justified as the union spokesman claims.

That was not my point. I agree with you, particularly when it is considered what Geoff takes home, and how many payrises/bonuses he has received in recent years.

My point was that the majority of the public do not see it that way, given world economic conditions at present.

 

[rhjames]

I beg to differ. Qantas makes huge profits. I think sharing the wealth is as justified as the union spokesman claims.

Sorry, but I find this a very unrealistic statement. Firstly, they already are, in the form of bonuses. Now, consider this. Times are good, profits are up, so share it with the employees - give them big pay increases. Next year, profits are down. Do you think the employees will take a pay cut? Saw this in our own company when we shared a percentage of profits to all employees each year. You should have heard the nonesense when we had a non-profitable year, and no profit share was paid.

 

[simongr]

Time for Rudd and his IR people to step up here and get something resolved in the national interest, it is part of their job. I don't doubt that something is in motion behind closed doors but they seem to be dragging the chain.

Ha ha - funniest post so far in this thread - Rudd government actually do something that impacts people without an inquiry or summit or commission? How on earth would their backbenchers get their extra allowances and overseas trips?

 

[rhjames]

Ha ha - funniest post so far in this thread - Rudd government actually do something that impacts people without an inquiry or summit or commission? How on earth would their backbenchers get their extra allowances and overseas trips?

Oh ye of little faith. Unfortunately I think you're right. Rudd is busy doing things like giving millions to car manufacturers to help them do something that they were already going to do. Let's not get started on this one.

 

[medhead]

Glad you are stringing together two unrelated "facts" - adds a lot of weight to your argument...

Actually, you've quoted me using a demonstrated pattern of behaviour towards customers to draw conclusions about behaviour towards staff. That's not really 2 "facts"

Of course, being able to draw together complex information from a number of sources to make an argument usually adds weight to that argument.

Thanks.

Edit: Just caught up with the rest of the thread. I see there is a strong "they should be happy with CPI" argument going. Maybe CPI is a good starting point, but any pay increase should be based on productivity gains. If the engineers work output has increased by more than CPI why shouldn't they get a more than CPI payrise.

 

[jpk]

Ha ha - funniest post so far in this thread - Rudd government actually do something that impacts people without an inquiry or summit or commission? How on earth would their backbenchers get their extra allowances and overseas trips?

Amusingly in the paper today it mentioned that QF lost Julia Gillard's luggage both ways on her recent US trip. So maybe they will concentrate on that first?

I wonder if their luggage came out first for the QF board members on their recent "mileage run" to JFK!

 

[maninblack]

Amusingly in the paper today it mentioned that QF lost Julia Gillard's luggage both ways on her recent US trip. So maybe they will concentrate on that first?

I wonder if their luggage came out first for the QF board members on their recent "mileage run" to JFK!

You would have to check the baggage carousels somewhere in the Caribbean as I assume most of them are still holidaying over there

 

[Platy]

Interesting opinion piece at the Australian. Author unknown though.

Union must get real | The Australian



Funny enough, the article could have been written by me. My views on the topic are extremely similar to that expressed in the article.

Shame the aforesaid article is seeped in the tremulous hyperole of a quivering Qantas press release.

 

[Platy]

Oh ye of little faith. Unfortunately I think you're right. Rudd is busy doing things like giving millions to car manufacturers to help them do something that they were already going to do. Let's not get started on this one.

Yes, indeed, best not unless you can spell HOWARD and MITSUBISHI...

 

[pauly7]

Where is the government in all this? The unions are part of the Labor machine. The government is not only a protector of Qantas but also a huge client of the airline.
.

I actually think that cRudd will stay out of this one - the govt is being slam dunked at the moment with the rejection of Fuelwatch, Iguanagate, Olympics, giving $ to Toyota for no reason etc etc.

The last thing he needs is to be dragged into a prolific IR battle, when they just dismanteled the apparantly unpopular WorkChoices which 98% of Australians have remained on despite having the option to leave without repercussion..... it would also create a nice link for journalists to link the increase in fuel prices to job losses.

Nah he won't touch it!!

 

[dragonman]

Sorry, but I find this a very unrealistic statement. Firstly, they already are, in the form of bonuses. Now, consider this. Times are good, profits are up, so share it with the employees - give them big pay increases. Next year, profits are down. Do you think the employees will take a pay cut? Saw this in our own company when we shared a percentage of profits to all employees each year. You should have heard the nonesense when we had a non-profitable year, and no profit share was paid.

No not big - 5% we are quibbling over 2%. Pure realism.

 

[Platy]

You should have heard the nonesense when we had a non-profitable year, and no profit share was paid.

Oh dear! All workers should simply be grateful for a job, the riff raff. Clearly they should be forced into accepting whatever pay the employer deems.

Was this a share ownership scheme?

Such a solution would seem to be of merit to me.

Oh yes, I've never heard of company management being shy of giving themselves a bonus, with or without a profit, and with or without spectacular failings on their part (I'm thinking Dixon recommending the private equity deal, and all those nice bankers who promoted sub prime lending) - not to mention enormous golden handshakes when even their own Board deem ha they have totally screwed everything up and have to be got rid of.

Get real people, this dispute is over $4.5million (or about $33million IF IF IF applied to all QF workers).