QF cuts back on flight to London

[Brettmcg]

Just read in the SMH that Qantas is cancelling 3 of its services to London because the planes are empty. Why I am not surprised?

QF2 to London and QF2 back were always well booked and now that ill conceived alliance is coming back to bite AJ. How much longer can QF afford to have AJ at the helm. He sold out QF European routes to the Sheikh's toy airline and the consequences start showing.

The Sand Pit as an alternative stop over to Singapore or Bangkok is simply not viable nor attractive (who wants to be under Sharia law???? in a boring place) and if I want to fly the Sheikh's airline I do it all the way (not that I have any desire to do so), I do not change from QF to EK in the sand pit. I always flew QF 5 to Frankfurt and QF 6 back to Sydney with a stop over in Singapore. Can't do it with QF anymore so my wife and I booked Singapore Airlines. AJ does a great job running QF International into the ground. What is the man's true agenda? My next London flight will be with Cathy! Still get the FF points! Again I rather stop over in HK than in Dubai.

Already discussed in a number of other threads and the load factors published by BITRE go some way to refuting the claims you have made that Europe via DXB is not attractive.

I also previously flew the QF5/6...a lot and was very sad when it disappeared. I'm over it now though and realise that the QF/EK proposition is actually much MORE attractive than the previous setup, under which anyone not travelling to LHR or FRA had to backtrack on BA via LHR. QF can't be everything to everyone, nor can it be expected to fly everywhere especially when you consider the legislative requirements it must meet at home, where its competitors are not faced with the same burden.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

To the OP: airlines do make seasonal adjustments on routes. it's been going on since 'the beginning'


p.s. I hope your wife won't be jealous of you travelling with Cathy

 

[Aisle Dweller]

True but not on the Kangaroo route and flights to Europe. Fact is that AJ sold out Qantas to Emirates and is running QF International into the ground. No loyalty to staff, no loyalty to customers. You cannot run a business this way. Generally the service to SEA is poor as well! 1 flight to Singapore a day, 1 to Bangkok, KL? nothing!, HCMC nothing! (AJ's no frill carrier does not count), Hanoi nothing! Far East! Similar!

 

[Himeno]

Cutting some flights is normal for this time of year. It is a slow period and the LHR routes have the DXB runway works to contend with as well.

 

[Aisle Dweller]

p.s. I hope your wife won't be jealous of you travelling with Cathy

She does not know it !

 

[Sprucegoose]

Isn't the London route a signature service?

 

[Brettmcg]

True but not on the Kangaroo route and flights to Europe. Fact is that AJ sold out Qantas to Emirates and is running QF International into the ground. No loyalty to staff, no loyalty to customers. You cannot run a business this way. Generally the service to SEA is poor as well! 1 flight to Singapore a day, 1 to Bangkok, KL? nothing!, HCMC nothing! (AJ's no frill carrier does not count), Hanoi nothing! Far East! Similar!

Currently there are 6 flights daily to SIN (to be reduced down to five when PER-SIN is cut in May), 3 to HKG, 1 to PVG, 1 to BKK, 1 to NRT and other non-daily services to MNL and CGK. I'm guessing HAN is probably majority leisure traffic (ie. not QF's core market) and KUL is well served by their OW partner MH. I'm guessing if QF thought they could make money on either of the other two routes I'd think they'd be starting up flights.

What evidence to you have to back up your assertion that it is FACT that AJ is running QFi into the ground? Whilst I don't necessarily disagree with the argument that he no longer has the backing of the staff nor the confidence of the customers, his management team have had to deal with some absolute cough sandwiches and the mistakes and mismanagement of regimes past.

 

[BD1959]

To the OP: airlines do make seasonal adjustments on routes. it's been going on since 'the beginning'

When was the last time QF made seasonal cuts to the LHR service?

I don't recall and a Google search on my phone is not helping.

Regards,

BD

 

[Melburnian1]

Just read in the SMH that Qantas is cancelling 3 of its services to London because the planes are empty. Why I am not surprised?

QF2 to London and QF2 back were always well booked and now that ill conceived alliance is coming back to bite AJ. How much longer can QF afford to have AJ at the helm. He sold out QF European routes to the Sheikh's toy airline and the consequences start showing.

The Sand Pit as an alternative stop over to Singapore or Bangkok is simply not viable nor attractive (who wants to be under Sharia law???? in a boring place) and if I want to fly the Sheikh's airline I do it all the way (not that I have any desire to do so), I do not change from QF to EK in the sand pit. I always flew QF 5 to Frankfurt and QF 6 back to Sydney with a stop over in Singapore. Can't do it with QF anymore so my wife and I booked Singapore Airlines. AJ does a great job running QF International into the ground. What is the man's true agenda? My next London flight will be with Cathy! Still get the FF points! Again I rather stop over in HK than in Dubai.

The planes may not be 'empty' (some months in one direction have good to excellent load factors) but one reason they have high load factors on occasion is that QF used to have multiple own metal flights to LHR (and FRA) via BKK, HKG and SIN whereas now it's the grand total of two per day (when they run!) via as you correctly say the unattractive sandpit.

Australians indeed have a huge aversion to sharia law. It is a completely foreign concept to a Judeo-Christian society.

In comparison, the vast majority of those of us who travel feel very comfortable (perhaps sometimes 'too complacent') in BKK, HKG, SIN, HKT, MNL, CEB, DPS, NRT and KIX among others and perhaps to a slightly lesser extent in KUL.

The Prime Minister's recent signing of a bilateral free trade agreement with Japan (despite 70 years ago that country being a wartime enemy) shows just how close we are in some senses to Asia.

 

[Brettmcg]

The planes may not be 'empty' (some months in one direction have good to excellent load factors) but one reason they have high load factors on occasion is that QF used to have multiple own metal flights to LHR (and FRA) via BKK, HKG and SIN whereas now it's the grand total of two per day (when they run!) via as you correctly say the unattractive sandpit.

Whether or not something is attractive to someone is completely subjective. The fact that EK have had great success flying pax to DXB and to the rest of the world suggests that either many Australians indeed DO find it an attractive proposition or that many simply don't care whether they transit in the ME or SE Asia.

 

[eminere]

From Business Traveller:

Qantas is following in the footsteps of Singapore Airlines and will drop several A380 services into London next month.

The flights being axed are those which operate between Dubai and London Heathrow.

The Australian airline will cancel flight QF10 between London and Dubai on May 12, May 19 and May 28, while flight QF1 from Dubai to London will be cancelled on May 13, May 20 and May 29.

Stephen Thompson, Qantas' head of international sales, told the Sydney Morning Herald: "What the market will notice is Qantas international becoming more commercially nimble, which is a reflection of the ultra-competitive environment we're in."

May and June tend to be slack months for travel, falling as they do between Easter and the summer peak, nevertheless this cancelling of flights is a relatively new trend and is not being undertaken by every carrier.

Reader feedback suggests that while Qantas can fill the sectors between Australia and Dubai, it faces difficulty filling seats on the final leg to London. Some reports suggest that the Dubai to London flights are running half-empty.

This is because many passengers are disembarking in Dubai and switching to Emirates for their onward flights to mainland Europe, Scandinavia and so on.

And Qantas has not had the success it anticipated in filling seats between Dubai and London, presumably because of the highly competitive nature of this route.

It had been rumoured that Qantas would axe more Dubai to London flights in its recent round of cutbacks but the London route was spared — until today.

However, Qantas says it remains committed to operating a double-daily A380 services into London for the future.

 

[Himeno]

Every flight on the LHR-DXB route is a QF partner in some way...

5? EK flights, 2 QF A380's and 2 or 3 BA flights depending on time of year (1x747, 1x777, seasonal 767).


It would be nice if QF would actually release the new timings for QF9/10 starting November. (Trying to plan a DONE3 with a LHR-DXB turn. Need to find out if a QF2>QF9 or QF10>QF1 connection would work with the new times)

 

[Brettmcg]

Every flight on the LHR-DXB route is a QF partner in some way...

5? EK flights, 2 QF A380's and 2 or 3 BA flights depending on time of year (1x747, 1x777, seasonal 767).


It would be nice if QF would actually release the new timings for QF9/10 starting November. (Trying to plan a DONE3 with a LHR-DXB turn. Need to find out if a QF2>QF9 or QF10>QF1 connection would work with the new times)

QF2 x/ QF9 or QF10 x/ QF1 - as in...arrive in DXB and fly straight back to LHR or arrive in SYD/MEL and fly straight back to DXB?!

 

[BD1959]

To the OP: airlines do make seasonal adjustments on routes. it's been going on since 'the beginning'

Quoting Business Traveller: this cancelling of flights is a relatively new trend and is not being undertaken by every carrier.

OK, so now I'm really confused ... new or since "the beginning"??

Regards,

BD

 

[james1]

Bummer. Am affected by this change on May 12. There goes booking in Y+ cabin - no doubt downgraded to Y on EK. No communication from QF as yet re the change. Although a lot of talk about load factors related to the EK/QF partnership, wouldn't an understanding/ knowledge of revenue per seat be needed to properly evaluate success or other of QF travel via DXB?

 

[Aussie_flyer]

OK, so now I'm really confused ... new or since "the beginning"??

Regards,

BD

you only need to read airlineroute.net to know the answer

 

[VHOEJ]

When was the last time QF made seasonal cuts to the LHR service?

I don't recall and a Google search on my phone is not helping.

Regards,

BD

They do it every year - all carriers do it, even SQ have made cuts. There are quiet times of the year - but why they waited until a month out to pull them out should be the story.

But this year it is newsworthy for some reason.

 

[rickylee]

Just to throw in some semi-random thoughts (entirely personal ones):

1/ While I tend to go to Europe without a NEED to stop in SIN or HKG, I prefer to do so, especially HKG. It is always good to throw in an additional meeting.

2/ However, if I have no business in either SIN or HKG, I prefer DXB as a stopover as the timing works out well and I do get to the end less exhausted than I do if I was flying through SIN or HKG and fighting time zone changes. Mind you, I am not and have never been a fan of the EK alliance as a business solution for QF International - I would have preferred to see QF partner with QR (especially now that they are both in *O) and fight EK together.

3/ What surprises me greatly about the data produced earlier in this thread is that PAX numbers to BKK actually increased substantially even though it is no longer used as a stopover to LHR.

4/ I can understand the attraction of having a one-stop flight to Europe as QF/EK now does through DXB. However, I almost never go to Europe for a single purpose at a single destination and before the EK deal, I had already gotten used to using LHR as "base camp" to hop between European cities using BA. Even after the EK alliance, I still find myself routing through LHR before setting out to BUD, CDG, DUS, VIE, PRA, etc. without lugging all my baggage with me. So for me personally, the loss of QF services to LHR via SIN or HKG was sorely felt for me, but what was much worse for me was the loss of the QF/BA codeshares from LHR to most of these ports.

5/ The fact that EK does not have premium economy means that combined QF/EK itineraries to Europe are forced to either be in economy or in business, for (I assume) no one would pay premium economy fares to sit in economy for two sectors of a four-sector journey.

6/ What QF may need more as a next step to attracting and serving passengers to Europe is for QF/*O to find a Central / Eastern European airline to defect.

 

[JohnPhelan]

Every flight on the LHR-DXB route is a QF partner in some way...

5? EK flights, 2 QF A380's and 2 or 3 BA flights depending on time of year (1x747, 1x777, seasonal 767).

And then there's the EK flights to/from LGW as well (either 3 or 4 of these per day).

 

[JohnPhelan]

You cannot run a business this way. Generally the service to SEA is poor as well!

I agree, QF's service to Seattle is poor - it doesn't exist and never has. I fly to LAX or DFW on QF and then fly AA or UA to SEA.