Qantas & the A380, will it work?

[phill84]

Interested in any up to date facts & opinion generaly on Qantas purchase of the A380. I've heard it said with perfect hind sight now, they should not have bought them. Any reliable figures on customer levels? Esp. Aust.-U.K.&U.S. Do they some times fly at a loss?

 

[Sprucegoose]

Harry hindsight is always running late.

If not the 380 what ought to be gracing the skies?

I think it has been a good acquisition for them. You can certainly fly more pax cheaper if you optimize your operations.

 

[UP4014]

I think it was a poor aquisition.

I certainly don't think the A380 will have the longevity of the 747. But of course, we'll have to wait that one out and confirm it in years to come.

DOes anyone know if Airbus ended up selling enough to cover their costs? Last I remember reading they were still a long way short.


Matt

 

[markis10]

All aircraft run at a loss at some stage of the year, the self loading freight tends to travel in packs and peaks. Boeing a long time ago worked out two full length decks would not be viable, I think they have been shown to be correct, as most airlines don't have the luxury of employing tax free salary staff and cheaper oil.

 

[Alanslegal]

The A380s are the best planes to have flown in the skies, sorry Boeing fans

 

[dk4]

... as most airlines don't have the luxury of employing tax free salary staff and cheaper oil.

Yes, but those that do seem to buy a helluva lot of aeroplanes!

 

[bismarck]

There was an interesting article in BusinessWeek towards the end of last year on the A380.

The Double-Decker A380 Faces its Moment of Truth - Businessweek

FWIW, I love flying the A380. As a spring chicken, I don't have the same historical affinity with the 747 and appreciate the quiet and stability of the A380. I hope it's around for a long time to come.

 

[phill84]

So would the 747-8 have been a much better buy, the better of two poor choices or should they just have bought a lot of big two engine aircraft?

 

[Spongbob]

An interesting topic.

My understanding of the logic (or part of it) for the A380 is/was limited slots at the more congested airports (e.g LHR). With, say, 10 arrival or departure slots each day it is more economical to use larger capacity aircraft than smaller planes (assuming the larger capacity is used and/or profitable). Also, the A380 was more fuel efficient than other planes when it was planned and designed (the B777 might have had similar fuel efficiency?). For these reasons the QF purchase / orders for the A380 could be justified at the time.

More recent circumstances (e.g. a shift from the port-to-port airline operations to hub and spoke operations) might now challenge the A380 logic. But, my understanding could be incorrect.

 

[UP4014]

The A380s are the best planes to have flown in the skies, sorry Boeing fans

What's that saying about everyone having an opinion.....everyone has something else as well.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

Interested in any up to date facts & opinion generaly on Qantas purchase of the A380. I've heard it said with perfect hind sight now, they should not have bought them. Any reliable figures on customer levels? Esp. Aust.-U.K.&U.S. Do they some times fly at a loss?

feel free to check bitre if you wish to see how full the Qantas flights are to the UK and USA

 

[markis10]

So would the 747-8 have been a much better buy, the better of two poor choices or should they just have bought a lot of big two engine aircraft?

The 748 is quite popular with cargo airlines, which is interesting given the availability of cheap second hand aircraft for conversions. For passengers, twins rule the skies, try getting a 777 with a short lead time, with many of the customers topping up orders on a regular basis, with United ordering another 10 this week if rumours are right. Additional orders for the 787 from operators has also been encouraging. It will be interesting to see if QF take their other A380s, I have a feeling no.

 

[maninblack]

Whilst I am not a defender of AJ he inherited this aircraft and has had to try to develop a strategy of how to use it. I'm not judging his success or otherwise but if Qantas had purchased say 25 77W's rather 14 (I think) A380's they would have more strategic options open to them all round.

 

[phill84]

Do they have the option not to? Are they not contractualy abliged to aquire a few more?

The 748 is quite popular with cargo airlines, which is interesting given the availability of cheap second hand aircraft for conversions. For passengers, twins rule the skies, try getting a 777 with a short lead time, with many of the customers topping up orders on a regular basis, with United ordering another 10 this week if rumours are right. Additional orders for the 787 from operators has also been encouraging. It will be interesting to see if QF take their other A380s, I have a feeling no.

 

[markis10]

Do they have the option not to? Are they not contractualy abliged to aquire a few more?

Not sure what the contract says, but Skymark did walk away at a very late stage...psst want a cheap A380 ??

 

[phill84]

Yes, I read a while ago the CEO was saying if they were to make the decision today they would not buy the A380, but I understand it was his predecessor who signed the contract.u

Whilst I am not a defender of AJ he inherited this aircraft and has had to try to develop a strategy of how to use it. I'm not judging his success or otherwise but if Qantas had purchased say 25 77W's rather 14 (I think) A380's they would have more strategic options open to them all round.

 

[harvyk]

My thoughts? I'm no A380 fan, it's just an aircraft as far as I'm concerned.

Did airbus do the right thing in building it? Absolutely not. There are only limited geographical area's where it can really do well. Basically area's where long haul is king.

Did QF do the right thing in buying it? Probably, although I'd have preferred them to go with 747-8 options as a personal preference. The A380 is designed for high capacity long haul, and most AU international flights are exactly that. We have a decent sized population which does not mind to travel, and does not mind long haul travel.

Of course the current love affair is with twins, and since most routes (except for a couple from / to AU/NZ) don't have ETOPS problems, twins do the job just fine.

 

[juddles]

I grew up with 747´s - even flew PanAm 747SP´s trans pacific. I absolutely love them and hope one day to fly a 747-800. Beautiful airplane.

But the A380´s are awesome also. The shock of the solidity of flying in those was amazing.

But that is all how I feel - nothing to do with airline economics.

I think that in the SHORT term the twins will be popular due to their flexibility. But with increasing global wealth and travel, it is only a couple of years before airport congestion will gain the upper hand. The bigger the aircraft, the better in that reality. Noone is building airports fast enough!!

 

[harvyk]

I think that in the SHORT term the twins will be popular due to their flexibility. But with increasing global wealth and travel, it is only a couple of years before airport congestion will gain the upper hand. The bigger the aircraft, the better in that reality. Noone is building airports fast enough!!

Agree 100%, although it's not just a case of building airports to handle it, they are going to run out of sky to place all these aircraft in.
A big problem is that where once airlines used to run a single 767 holding say 250 pax, they now run 4 regional aircraft each holding 60 pax. Yes it means that you have the 10:00am / 10:30 / 11:00 / 11:30 service rather than just the one 10:00am service, the reality is that there is only so many planes you can place in the sky.

They are attempting to combat this problem by introducing new systems which allow for much smaller separation distances, however there will be a time when physics just takes over.

 

[Himeno]

Whilst I am not a defender of AJ he inherited this aircraft and has had to try to develop a strategy of how to use it. I'm not judging his success or otherwise but if Qantas had purchased say 25 77W's rather 14 (I think) A380's they would have more strategic options open to them all round.

Qantas ordered 12 with 12 more options in November 2000, then converted 8 of the options to firm orders in October 2006.
12 have been delivered, 8 were pushed back to 2018 and beyond. Technically there are 4 more options.