Qantas Sydney International Business Lounge

[justinbrett]

Based on what metric?

Temp Lounge capacity < Former J lounge capacity

 

[elanshin]

Based on what metric?

I think just guesstimating from the old eyeball test where QF J was reasonably full and the current space is smaller.

 

[Quickstatus]

J was reasonably full and the current space is smaller.

At the time you were travelling... I suspect it is just QF using a catch all out for them. There is no way for lounge eligible passengers to actually know.

 

[Quickstatus]

V

Temp Lounge capacity < Former J lounge capacity

Licensed lounge capacity < licensed former J lounge capacity

Again, it is quite different to saying that the actual lounge capacity was unable to absorb 2pax at the time of seeking lounge access. Lounge traffic can be quite variable

No loss to us . Just another dot point: OW lounge access possibly unreliable.

 

[Aeryn]

Just another dot point: OW lounge access possibly unreliable.

More accurately the access to QF temporary J lounge at SYD is unreliable when flying J or below on OW partners and holding status below WP/OWE.

 

[justinbrett]

V

Licensed lounge capacity < licensed former J lounge capacity

Again, it is quite different to saying that the actual lounge capacity was unable to absorb 2pax at the time of seeking lounge access. Lounge traffic can be quite variable

No loss to us . Just another dot point: OW lounge access possibly unreliable.

But why your 2 pax and not another 20 groups of 2 pax? What makes you special?

They have to manage this at a macro level otherwise QF can’t accommodate its own pax, which doesn’t have alternative arrangements.

MH may also be paying the 3rd party lounge on the basis that’s the only lounge they need to pay for, and won’t also pay QF for its lounge.

I think you’re being very unreasonable.

 

[Amanad78]

Just another data point.
We're flying MH J tonight on our OWA, had a domestic transfer to Sydney this afternoon, both flights checked in via the Qantas app.
2x QF eboarding passes on the phone.
Scanned us straight into the Qantas International business lounge. No mention of any other lounges.

 

[elanshin]

Just another data point.
We're flying MH J tonight on our OWA, had a domestic transfer to Sydney this afternoon, both flights checked in via the Qantas app.
2x QF eboarding passes on the phone.
Scanned us straight into the Qantas International business lounge. No mention of any other lounges.

I wonder if this is because 1 you were holding onto QF boarding passes (so they can't easily tell it's MH) and 2 evenings tend to be quieter at SYD.

 

[Amanad78]

I wonder if this is because 1 you were holding onto QF boarding passes (so they can't easily tell it's MH) and 2 evenings tend to be quieter at SYD.

Yes, I reckon both of those reasons, its pretty quiet. There are 5x go to gate flights so everyone left for those and another 8 flights before our flight.
And definitely the QF boarding pass, I'm sure made a difference

 

[DC3]

It's just a walkway for me. Couldn't care less.

Yeah, we guessed as much

 

[justinbrett]

Yeah, we guessed as much

I did have an extra look today - I stand by a casual observer assuming it’s fake. It’s in good condition today so all is green. Last time I here there was a lot of brown spots so obvious it wasn’t fake then.

Either way I think they’d get away with using fake plants. Very few would notice, and even less would care.

Hope it’s not costing them much to maintain otherwise that money should be redirected to replacing the lounges

 

[QFFHntrGthr]

MH may also be paying the 3rd party lounge on the basis that’s the only lounge they need to pay for, and won’t also pay QF for its lounge.

I think you’re being very unreasonable.

Once your MH BP is scanned, MH the operating carrier has to pay for your QF lounge access if you're entering as a MH J pax. If you're not flying J and entering the QF lounge on your OW status including QFF and your OWFF number is in the booking and hence on the BP, the FF department of the OW member on your BP pays for your your access. As you are using a OW lounge. If however you are using your status to enter the lounge by just flashing your OW status card, the desk staff has to additionally record that FF detail so the right OW member is charged for your access. Hence in some instances they find it easier to just send you away especially if the system won't allow them to record the additional informarton without actually changing your earning FF program in your booking.
That's the way it works. MH's own contracted lounge won't earn anything from MH if you don't use the PP lounge ie your BP is not scanned. If you do, in this case MH pays even if you have your OWFF on the BP and the invite to the contracted lounge in on your BP . If you are a non J pax, MH may in turn recharge the respective OW FF program for your visit, not sure if all the OW member do it in this case.. In this instance , flashing you OW status card will not get you into the contracted non OW lounge.

 

[Quickstatus]

But why your 2 pax and not another 20 groups of 2 pax? What makes you special?

You suggest that OW J pax do not get access to QF J Lounge because the capacity of the lounge is unable to accommodate OW J pax including at the time of my access request (though more accurately characterised as an access check). . I just ask the simple question - how do you know.?. You have been unable to point to anything that would confirm that. Maybe they were full at the time of my arrival but both you and I don't know that they actually were.

Incidentally, capacity constraints also apply to QF's own passengers.

My suggestion is that OW Lounge eligibility based on class of travel is less of a perk because of the catch all rule that allow a lounge to restrict access based on "capacity constraints". That is obviously reasonable on one level of analysis. but on another level, it could just be applied to OW partner airline passengers even though there is no capacity issues at the time of an access request.

They have to manage this at a macro level

They manage the lounge anyway they want - macro and micro - down to the type of hand towels it wishes to use. It is clearly not for any passenger to tell them what to do.

The outcome of their policies for me just means that OW class of travel perks might not be equivalent to the airline's class of travel perks in terms of lounge eligibility despite the OW marketing.

I also note that QF has distanced itself from OW lounge eligibility policies. There is no explicit mention of OW lounge access based on class of travel in QF lounge access policies.

And that's all OK. QF does what it wants to do.
I've only provided a data point for people to consider.

 

[justinbrett]

Once your MH BP is scanned, MH the operating carrier has to pay for your QF lounge access if you're entering as a MH J pax. If you're not flying J and entering the QF lounge on your OW status including QFF and your OWFF number is in the booking and hence on the BP, the FF department of the OW member on your BP pays for your your access. As you are using a OW lounge. If however you are using your status to enter the lounge by just flashing your OW status card, the desk staff has to additionally record that FF detail so the right OW member is charged for your access. Hence in some instances they find it easier to just send you away especially if the system won't allow them to record the additional informarton without actually changing your earning FF program in your booking.
That's the way it works. MH's own contracted lounge won't earn anything from MH if you don't use the PP lounge ie your BP is not scanned. If you do, in this case MH pays even if you have your OWFF on the BP and the invite to the contracted lounge in on your BP . If you are a non J pax, MH may in turn recharge the respective OW FF program for your visit, not sure if all the OW member do it in this case.. In this instance , flashing you OW status card will not get you into the contracted non OW lounge.

I don’t think that’s correct - I believe that’s the case for other alliances but in oneworld the marketing carrier pays including for pax entering with oneworld status. There doesn’t seem to be a definitive source as it’s commercial in confidence but most sources align with this. I think some experts have said some airlines have bilat deals that vary the oneworld policies.

Behind the Scenes: Who's Paying Whom for Airport Lounge Access

Whenever you enter an airport lounge, a transaction is taking place behind the scenes. Somebody is paying the lounge operator.

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

But what I was specifically referring to is that MH may have had to pay a floor amount to gain access for its pax. These kinds of deals are bespoke and it’s wild speculation unless you’re party to the arrangements. I only said it was a possibility not that it was the case.

 

[jase05]

Maybe they were full at the time of my arrival but both you and I don't know that they actually were.

Absolutely but I would imagine QF would have the data from their flights and experience to know if they were coming up to a busy period.
With a lower capacity they have probably crunched their numbers and just decided that a straight out no was easier

 

[Quickstatus]

With a lower capacity they have probably crunched their numbers and just decided that a straight out no was easier

It is quite possible that they decided on a blanket ban based on that even though at the time there might not have been a capacity issue. I don't know.

At that time in the evening there were only the HND and SFO 787 flights

At my visit there were no queues at the QF J lounge but was a queue at PP across the corridor.

The last time a OW lounge pulled a capacity limitation reason was the CX Marco Polo Lounge in SFO. I, as a QF J pax would have been eligible under OW rules but I was punted to the AF lounge canteen.

 

[QFFHntrGthr]

But what I was specifically referring to is that MH may have had to pay a floor amount to gain access for its pax. These kinds of deals are bespoke and it’s wild speculation unless you’re party to the arrangements. I only said it was a possibility not that it was the case.

I'm not sure there is a base amount like a retainer to be a contracted lounge though. Seriously, if I ran a business and go around signing contracts to be a preferred supplier/client and have to pay a retainer for that privilege not knowing if there will be enough trade volume to turn a healthy return, I'd be behind the eighth ball before I even start.

Penang domestic only has 1 lounge - PP. It is MH's contracted lounge and the invite is printed on the boarding pass. I always credit MH flights to Qff. On entering the lounge, the front desk staff records your flight, and heaven knows what else, takes a screen shot of the BP etc. She does so much so I asked her why does she have to do all that. She replied that MH require them to do all this to get paid for my visit. I said to her but this is MH's contracted lounge. Wouldn't MH just pay PP based on the number of flights, J seats etc. Once you've scanned my BP with the invite would that not record my entry to the lounge. She replied no. If MH didn't contract them as the MH lounge, then I will have to pay for the visit myself when flying MH. MH by contracting them, MH agrees to pay for their paxs visits and they only pay for each visit. I said to her if I and every MH pax decide this lounge is not worth wasting time in and don't visit, they don't get paid at all. She replied in the affirmative also adding that MH is very strict. If she misses something, MH will refuse to pay and she will be in trouble. It's a tough old recharge world.

 

[justinbrett]

You suggest that OW J pax do not get access to QF J Lounge because the capacity of the lounge is unable to accommodate OW J pax. I just ask the simple question - how do you know.?. You have been unable to point to anything that would confirm that.

Maybe they were full at the time of my arrival but both you and I don't know that they actually were.

My suggestion is that OW Lounge eligibility based on class of travel is less of a perk because of the catch all eligibility rules that allow a lounge to restrict access based on capacity constraints. On one level that is reasonable but on another level, it could just be applied even though there is no capacity issues at the time of an access request.


They manage the lounge anyway they want - macro/micro. It is not for any passenger to tell them what to do.

The outcome of their policies for me just means that for me that OW is becoming less OW in terms of benefits to OW passengers

As I said, I think you’re being very unreasonable. This is a temporary arrangement for a single lounge refurb. Speaking of the entire alliance benefits being cut as a result of this is just ridiculous.

I'm not sure there is a base amount like a retainer to be a contracted lounge though. Seriously, if I ran a business and go around signing contracts to be a preferred supplier/client and have to pay a retainer for that privilege not knowing if there will be enough trade volume to turn a healthy return, I'd be behind the eighth ball before I even start.

Penang domestic only has 1 lounge - PP. It is MH's contracted lounge and the invite is printed on the boarding pass. I always credit MH flights to Qff. On entering the lounge, the front desk staff records your flight, and heaven knows what else, takes a screen shot of the BP etc. She does so much so I asked her why does she have to do all that. She replied that MH require them to do all this to get paid for my visit. I said to her but this is MH's contracted lounge. Wouldn't MH just pay PP based on the number of flights, J seats etc. Once you've scanned my BP with the invite would that not record my entry to the lounge. She replied no. If MH didn't contract them as the MH lounge, then I will have to pay for the visit myself when flying MH. MH by contracting them, MH agrees to pay for their paxs visits and they only pay for each visit. I said to her if I and every MH pax decide this lounge is not worth wasting time in and don't visit, they don't get paid at all. She replied in the affirmative also adding that MH is very strict. If she misses something, MH will refuse to pay and she will be in trouble. It's a tough old recharge world.

Quite possibly not in this case but I guarantee QF paid a base amount to EK to use ther AKL lounge during the returb, maybe per pax in addition but there would have definitely been a base amount to cover costs of extra staff.

 

[QFFHntrGthr]

I guarantee QF paid a base amount to EK to use ther AKL lounge during the returb, maybe per pax in addition but there would have definitely been a base amount to cover costs of extra staff.

You're right. EK is not a benevolent organisation. Qantas wanting to use the EK AKL lounge as a defacto QF lounge during its own lounge's refurb would have had to pay for that exclusive privilege - even setting up QF's own reception and inferior menu (think of the hurt it would have caused EKs own very high lounge standard). I guess that's what pals are for, to look after each other in times of need regardless of how incovenient it may be.
The extra staff during the QF hours and after the EK normal hours started were QF contracted, from whoever their non baggage ground staff are employed by (they have told me a zillion times but this old brain is not retaining it). Those same staff are now in the swanky new QF lounge.
As an aside (nothing to do with this thread of course but let's live dangerously, hoping the mods will be benevolent tonight); I wonder if QF left the barista cart behind in the EK lounge as a "thank you mate" parting gift.