Qantas leaves Perth in the lurch-again

[gilant]

It took 2 years after Qantas started Premium Economy before they would allow passengers who start their journey from Perth to book Premium Economy- on the Singapore leg of Singapore -London. With the Emirates deal Perth passengers will not be able to get PE seats as the Qantas aircraft with those seats will overfly Perth and Emirates do not have a PE offering.

Qantas could run a service direct to London from Perth using 747 or A300 aircraft but no, they seem only interested in leaving Perth to Emirates, Singapore Airlines, Cathay, Air Asia, China Southern and recently Qatar. BHP,Rio,Fortescue and lots of other big companies have large operations in the west + Perth has a huge UK and Italian ex pat community


No wonder they are losing money on international flights, they are far too focussed on Melbourne and Sydney to the detriment of other cities.

 

[Captain Paul]

Well said Gilant!
I still can't understand why Qantas cancelled PER - Tokyo.
This was the best route to North America using QF/AA or QF/JL.
I also know lots of people who used that route for the Japan Ski season.
Why would I want to fly over the Aussie Bight south of Adelaide via two domestic layovers(SYD and LAX/DFW) to North America? It just does not make any sense. Please Qantas, stop advertising that ridiculous route to us sandgopers.
As for Dubai, add it to the QF network for sure(as lots of people like Dubai) but I prefer SIN and HKG and Qantas should have kept the Kangaroo hop via SIN and HKG. Qantas will lose my business as I prefer a SE Asia stopover. Aah the Raffles!...
Back to the PER - Tokyo route - this was replaced with two code shares on JL QF 4021/22 and QF 4025/26 via SIN.
I tried booking that route and it is prohibitively expensive, more than $2,000 return. As for FF points, the last time I looked it required about 500,000 FF points return in Economy! If I go to the Japanese QF website, I can book TKY-SIN-PER return for about 30-50% cheaper in cash.
Poor Qantas, poor Perth.
Regards

 

[spudwa]

> Qantas could run a service direct to London from Perth using 747 or A300 aircraft but no

I dont think this is possible even with an all J configuration

 

[mannej]

You can always fly the DXB-LHR leg in premium could you not?

Just saying, the only change here is the transit point.

 

[Cynicor]

Well said Gilant!
I still can't understand why Qantas cancelled PER - Tokyo.
This was the best route to North America using QF/AA or QF/JL.
I also know lots of people who used that route for the Japan Ski season...

To be fair, that plane was pretty much empty both ways for most of the year, filling up in December-March at best (for the northern winter). They sold the seats fairly cheaply at times to get bums on seats but it didn't seem to work.

I really miss that flight, and feel that they probably could make more of a go of it if they improved the offering from a tired 767 but the JAL codeshare isnt' horrible. It is really reasonably prices at times, too. Did you see my post in the cheap international airfares section? PER-NRT or CTS for only $900 or $1100 for the ski season.

 

[mannej]

It took 2 years after Qantas started Premium Economy before they would allow passengers who start their journey from Perth to book Premium Economy- on the Singapore leg of Singapore -London. With the Emirates deal Perth passengers will not be able to get PE seats as the Qantas aircraft with those seats will overfly Perth and Emirates do not have a PE offering.

Qantas could run a service direct to London from Perth using 747 or A300 aircraft but no, they seem only interested in leaving Perth to Emirates, Singapore Airlines, Cathay, Air Asia, China Southern and recently Qatar. BHP,Rio,Fortescue and lots of other big companies have large operations in the west + Perth has a huge UK and Italian ex pat community


No wonder they are losing money on international flights, they are far too focussed on Melbourne and Sydney to the detriment of other cities.

I agree that the way QF approach PER internationally is not the best. However you mention the premium economy, not all of those airlines have the offering to PER, let alone premium economy full stop.

The 747-400 has been around for some 20 years has it not. If that was the case, if PER-LHR was possible, why are we not seeing it? Because it is not viable, and I am sure people do not want to do the full hop to Europe squashed up for that length of time. As for the A300, they haven't been in the QF fleet for how many years now?

As for the point regarding SIN and HKG, it is conjecture as to whether they will withdraw out of PER, however, if they improve the offerings from SIN, it could be a smart move to open up more of Asia.

The comment regarding cost out of AUS compared to the other way, most other airlines charge more out of AU compared to the other way, this happens ex-US, ex-EU, so it is a moot point full stop.
As for the points, I am sure you are looking at an Any Seat Award, as a classic would not cost that much for that distance.

Why would the Italian community use QF to Europe full stop? They stopped flying to FCO a long time ago, so

 

[Daver6]

PER to SIN flight time is what...5-6 hours? Roughly double that the DXB from PER. So more time in Y.

You can always fly the DXB-LHR leg in premium could you not?

Just saying, the only change here is the transit point.

 

[ChrisDPom]

This is a nightmare for me for a number of reasons.

I fly to LHR 3 times a year - parents are unwell so head over May, July & December.

Usually take as cheap a flight as possible to still get SCs (points + or straight PAYG).

Have QFF Silver status + club member I can package at work so not pushing for Gold as no real benefits.

Silver lets me choose seats (more important than anything - see below).

I have a routine that has been great for best use of time, best chance of sleep, decent cost and minimal jet lag:


Next trip is 5 December out and 18 December back.

Book it on Qantas as usual - QF71 at 15.45 for 5 odd hours to SIN on a 300. Pick an aisle seat and relax.

QF9 SIN to LHR at 22.55 on the 380 and pick my favourite seat on the window in row 80 where I have leg room in front of my as only 2 exit seats. No one steps on my feet exercising by the exit and no $80 for the exit seat purchase.

If already taken, pay for the exit seat and hope I don't get a stiletto heel onto my foot when asleep as happened a few years about (got a broken toe out of that).

I am 195cm (6'4" in the old scale) and copped a DVT 5 years ago, so standard cattle class seats with no leg room do not appeal.

If I can stretch my legs out, I can usually 9 hours+ rest on the 13 hour flight.

Then arrive early 5.30 am (ish) into LHR for a full day before crashing. Up next morning and no jet lag.

On the way back with same seats, take QF2 at 21.30 so get the full day in London, QF78 from SIN arriving at PER at 1 am, bed by 3 am for 5 hours and a couple of days for jet lag adjustment.

Simple, effective, cheap, get sleep, little jet lag, 30kg baggage each way, 27,560 QFF points and 130 SCs - perfect!!


Now we come to the next trip. I have trip dates confirmed (17 May out and 7 June back).

If I book the flight (cost of $2,310), I know I am wasting my time as the flight will be dumped for an Emirates one.

The flight will be changed to a 6.00 am (EK425) or 15.35 (EK423) Emirates departure, my seats will be lost and I will be on 777s for the leg to Dubai (11 hours).

Post EK425 flights on from Dubai mean evening arrival in UK - jet lag, waste of a day etc.

Post EK423 flights on from Dubai mean morning arrival (min 4 hrs in Dubai).

On the way back, again options are messy especially if prefer an evening flight out from London. Best seems EK010 LGW 21.15 to Dubai then 3 hours transit for EK424 10.05 am DXB to PER arrive 1am next morning.

Not sure whether Qantas will give me flexibility on flights so may be stuck with a horror run.


Looked at whether I just book a flight with Emirates and at least pick my flights (assume I will lose SCs and get some Skywards points I may be able to merge with QFF??).

Cost on Emirates website startes at $1,597 (specials on at present).

Can book the preferred flights 15.30 PER in at 07.00 LHR (and 380 from DXB) with 21.15 LGW in at PER 00.55.

Only 20Kg luggage which is a pain and seats and sleeping stuffed.


So I can save $700 (possibly book some exit seats with Emirates?) with lousy sleeping times and jet lag. Not sure if I can use the lounge in Dubai on London as Club with QF and on a cheap cattle class with Emirates, lose 10kg each way plus probably SCs and maybe no QFFs (???).

Or pay QF price and still get bounced around on flights, seating etc when they stop the PER to SIN to LHR flights. Would keep SCs & QFFs & 30kg luggage.

Then I have to do it all again for my July/August trip!!

Can anyone spot if I have missed something - I need to book soon to lock in the price if I go Emirates.

Cheers

Chris

 

[The Rok]

This is a nightmare for me for a number of reasons.

I fly to LHR 3 times a year - parents are unwell so head over May, July & December.

Usually take as cheap a flight as possible to still get SCs (points + or straight PAYG).

Have QFF Silver status + club member I can package at work so not pushing for Gold as no real benefits.

Silver lets me choose seats (more important than anything - see below).

I have a routine that has been great for best use of time, best chance of sleep, decent cost and minimal jet lag:


Next trip is 5 December out and 18 December back.

Book it on Qantas as usual - QF71 at 15.45 for 5 odd hours to SIN on a 300. Pick an aisle seat and relax.

QF9 SIN to LHR at 22.55 on the 380 and pick my favourite seat on the window in row 80 where I have leg room in front of my as only 2 exit seats. No one steps on my feet exercising by the exit and no $80 for the exit seat purchase.

If already taken, pay for the exit seat and hope I don't get a stiletto heel onto my foot when asleep as happened a few years about (got a broken toe out of that).

I am 195cm (6'4" in the old scale) and copped a DVT 5 years ago, so standard cattle class seats with no leg room do not appeal.

If I can stretch my legs out, I can usually 9 hours+ rest on the 13 hour flight.

Then arrive early 5.30 am (ish) into LHR for a full day before crashing. Up next morning and no jet lag.

On the way back with same seats, take QF2 at 21.30 so get the full day in London, QF78 from SIN arriving at PER at 1 am, bed by 3 am for 5 hours and a couple of days for jet lag adjustment.

Simple, effective, cheap, get sleep, little jet lag, 30kg baggage each way, 27,560 QFF points and 130 SCs - perfect!!


Now we come to the next trip. I have trip dates confirmed (17 May out and 7 June back).

If I book the flight (cost of $2,310), I know I am wasting my time as the flight will be dumped for an Emirates one.

The flight will be changed to a 6.00 am (EK425) or 15.35 (EK423) Emirates departure, my seats will be lost and I will be on 777s for the leg to Dubai (11 hours).

Post EK425 flights on from Dubai mean evening arrival in UK - jet lag, waste of a day etc.

Post EK423 flights on from Dubai mean morning arrival (min 4 hrs in Dubai).

On the way back, again options are messy especially if prefer an evening flight out from London. Best seems EK010 LGW 21.15 to Dubai then 3 hours transit for EK424 10.05 am DXB to PER arrive 1am next morning.

Not sure whether Qantas will give me flexibility on flights so may be stuck with a horror run.


Looked at whether I just book a flight with Emirates and at least pick my flights (assume I will lose SCs and get some Skywards points I may be able to merge with QFF??).

Cost on Emirates website startes at $1,597 (specials on at present).

Can book the preferred flights 15.30 PER in at 07.00 LHR (and 380 from DXB) with 21.15 LGW in at PER 00.55.

Only 20Kg luggage which is a pain and seats and sleeping stuffed.


So I can save $700 (possibly book some exit seats with Emirates?) with lousy sleeping times and jet lag. Not sure if I can use the lounge in Dubai on London as Club with QF and on a cheap cattle class with Emirates, lose 10kg each way plus probably SCs and maybe no QFFs (???).

Or pay QF price and still get bounced around on flights, seating etc when they stop the PER to SIN to LHR flights. Would keep SCs & QFFs & 30kg luggage.

Then I have to do it all again for my July/August trip!!

Can anyone spot if I have missed something - I need to book soon to lock in the price if I go Emirates.

Cheers

Chris

If you are a QC Member then you will have lounge access while transiting Dubai. I don't think you will have any access in LHR though. I guess that is still up in the air.

 

[ChrisDPom]

Thanks Rok - I can live with that for the moment.


I have also done some more research.

Possibly some answers:

Unravelling the Qantas Frequent Flyer code

No SC if booked as a Emirates flight. (As suspected, but media report - see below).
Can use Emirates Lounge in Dubai if Club member (good as 7 hrs transit).

Decided to call QFF and have a chat.

Was confirmed the following:

Flights will be changed once govt. approval reveived (no timetable for when this will be given of course). Suggested call staight away when announced to then try and get preferred re-booking instead of wait for the Qantas call when many options may have already gone - very good advice!!

Emirates are starting a new 3rd PER - DXB flight around 21.00 or 22.00 from 1 March (didn't note the time but presume to allow for the extra bodies who would usually go to SIn for the LHR Qantas connections).

Rebooking for QF1 or QF9 from DXB is possible as they are still intended to arrive early am into LHR. So 15.45 PER to SIN should be able to rebook 15.30 PER to DXB then on Qantas 380 to LHR for am arrival. Only issue we both agreed was preferred seating may be an issue if this rebooking is a while off - my note above about my preferred seating - i.e. how many emergency exit or Row 80 window seats will still be available?

Mentioned the special with Emirates now - suggested book it as should get QFF and SCs. Queried SCs and he admitted still not sure on that if direct Emirates booking but code share Qantas booking is SCs. Said should be able to book extra luggage kgs and seats on Emirates.

So final decision is save $700 less costs of preferred seats and extra baggage with a possible loss of SCs.

I need to get to 250 SCs to retain Silver for the year by 31 July (75 already accumulated, 130 in December confirmed = 205, probably another 60SCs on internals should make my renewal anyway).

Think I am booking Emirates (will confirm how much total cost is).

 

[The Rok]

I suspect that anything booked out of Perth at all will accrue SC's as QF is basically abandoning Perth and handing it to EK.

 

[geordieladinoz]

This is a nightmare for me for a number of reasons.

I fly to LHR 3 times a year - parents are unwell so head over May, July & December.

Usually take as cheap a flight as possible to still get SCs (points + or straight PAYG).

Have QFF Silver status + club member I can package at work so not pushing for Gold as no real benefits.

Silver lets me choose seats (more important than anything - see below).

I have a routine that has been great for best use of time, best chance of sleep, decent cost and minimal jet lag:


Next trip is 5 December out and 18 December back.

Book it on Qantas as usual - QF71 at 15.45 for 5 odd hours to SIN on a 300. Pick an aisle seat and relax.

QF9 SIN to LHR at 22.55 on the 380 and pick my favourite seat on the window in row 80 where I have leg room in front of my as only 2 exit seats. No one steps on my feet exercising by the exit and no $80 for the exit seat purchase.

If already taken, pay for the exit seat and hope I don't get a stiletto heel onto my foot when asleep as happened a few years about (got a broken toe out of that).

I am 195cm (6'4" in the old scale) and copped a DVT 5 years ago, so standard cattle class seats with no leg room do not appeal.

If I can stretch my legs out, I can usually 9 hours+ rest on the 13 hour flight.

Then arrive early 5.30 am (ish) into LHR for a full day before crashing. Up next morning and no jet lag.

On the way back with same seats, take QF2 at 21.30 so get the full day in London, QF78 from SIN arriving at PER at 1 am, bed by 3 am for 5 hours and a couple of days for jet lag adjustment.

Simple, effective, cheap, get sleep, little jet lag, 30kg baggage each way, 27,560 QFF points and 130 SCs - perfect!!


Now we come to the next trip. I have trip dates confirmed (17 May out and 7 June back).

If I book the flight (cost of $2,310), I know I am wasting my time as the flight will be dumped for an Emirates one.

The flight will be changed to a 6.00 am (EK425) or 15.35 (EK423) Emirates departure, my seats will be lost and I will be on 777s for the leg to Dubai (11 hours).

Post EK425 flights on from Dubai mean evening arrival in UK - jet lag, waste of a day etc.

Post EK423 flights on from Dubai mean morning arrival (min 4 hrs in Dubai).

On the way back, again options are messy especially if prefer an evening flight out from London. Best seems EK010 LGW 21.15 to Dubai then 3 hours transit for EK424 10.05 am DXB to PER arrive 1am next morning.

Not sure whether Qantas will give me flexibility on flights so may be stuck with a horror run.


Looked at whether I just book a flight with Emirates and at least pick my flights (assume I will lose SCs and get some Skywards points I may be able to merge with QFF??).

Cost on Emirates website startes at $1,597 (specials on at present).

Can book the preferred flights 15.30 PER in at 07.00 LHR (and 380 from DXB) with 21.15 LGW in at PER 00.55.

Only 20Kg luggage which is a pain and seats and sleeping stuffed.


So I can save $700 (possibly book some exit seats with Emirates?) with lousy sleeping times and jet lag. Not sure if I can use the lounge in Dubai on London as Club with QF and on a cheap cattle class with Emirates, lose 10kg each way plus probably SCs and maybe no QFFs (???).

Or pay QF price and still get bounced around on flights, seating etc when they stop the PER to SIN to LHR flights. Would keep SCs & QFFs & 30kg luggage.

Then I have to do it all again for my July/August trip!!

Can anyone spot if I have missed something - I need to book soon to lock in the price if I go Emirates.

Cheers

Chris

Chris

Why not just do what you currently do and book on BA16/QF319 and BA15/QF320 codeshare with BA between Singapore and London. Almost identical times so means almost no change and you are still flying within OW albeit on BA metal? I have flown BA on numerous occasions and whilst they are no QF they are convenient for what you want to achieve?

HTH, Matthew

 

[extracta]

Use Singapore airlines. Choice of two flights out of perth a day. You can purchase extra leg room seats for $50.
Join Aegean and allocate your miles from your first return trip to them. You need 20000 miles to achieve star GOLD. They give you 1000, so in reality you only need 19000.
You will probably need to do a short status run to achieve GOLD when you first get back to perth.
You could then just switch FF programs to either SQ or Asiana. It looks like you do enough miles to reach gold with SQ. If not use Asiana.
Just make sure you book a points earning flight with SQ. At the moment the flexi saver is just under 2K and gives 100% points.
When booking with SQ you can select normal economy seats as part of the booking process.

 

[ChrisDPom]

Thanks all for the thoughts.

I fly internally a bit with QF + have almost 2 years on Club membership for Aussie & International lounges so probably going to stick with what I have for convenience.

Having to change the dates (some German and pommy friends are organising a brauhaus fact finding trip in Germany so will leave a few weeks later).

Doing more research as I type so will probably make the decision and book - will let you know what I find.

Cheers

Chris

 

[mannej]

ChrisDPom - you may want to check the EK baggage allowance, as it is a standard 30kg's for economy class.

However, from what has been suggested by QF, you will still get to keep your status entitlements when flying EK in a situation like that.

 

[ChrisDPom]

Did the numbers and Emirates are still cheapest option (though looking 25 May out and back 22 June so moving into a more expensive band).

Qatar $1,557 on special, normally $2,179

Emirates $1,892.

Singapore $2,102

Qantas still $2,312.

Malaysian $2,465

Emirates allow 30kg luggage for cattle class as mannej mentions

Singapore allow 20kg and have USD$60/ kg excess charge:shock:. I though QFs AUS$50/ kg was bad enough.

Qatar allow 23 kg and have USD$13/ kg excess charge.

With Emirates I cannot book emergency exit seats or my favorite seats on the 380 (but the very nice lady on the phone said they lock these seats out for tall people so has noted me as such on my membership).
Makes it more hit and miss on seating but liveable for now.

 

[extracta]

With Emirates I cannot book emergency exit seats or my favorite seats on the 380 (but the very nice lady on the phone said they lock these seats out for tall people so has noted me as such on my membership).
Makes it more hit and miss on seating but liveable for now.

The exit row seats are the best value of anything IMHO. Those seats are very popular and will go to people with status.

 

[ChrisCunard]

I'm with the OP here. Very disappointed that Qantas expect me to be happy with an EK 3-4-3 Y or 2-3-2 J to DXB for LHR rather than a QF bird to SIN / LHR.

Just returned from LHR-SIN on the A380 and SIN-PER A330. Probably last QF trip to Europe.

I'd have been over the moon at the new alliance had there been a QF A330 or 744 service into DXB.

The question is now, which airline to switch to?

SQ?
Qatar?
Any ideas?

 

[RSD]

Emirates are starting a new 3rd PER - DXB flight around 21.00 or 22.00 from 1 March (didn't note the time but presume to allow for the extra bodies who would usually go to SIn for the LHR Qantas connections).

Wouldn't be 21.00 or 22.00 if they are going to connect with QF in DXB to go on to LHR. Is this going to be the talked about A380 service? I was hoping that the EK425 6am departure would be the A380 when they start flying it to/from Perth.

 

[browski]

If the Qantas group airline called JetStar Asia upgrade their equipment from an A320 to a A330 with Starclass, then I guess this will be the answer to all your prayers.