Qantas, Australia's new LCC?

[davidj]

Hopefully the title didn’t hit too many nerves here, this thread is meant to be objective as possible!

I recently had the pleasure of flying a Qantas flight for the very first time a few weeks ago, usually having flown Virgin. With these ‘fresh’ set of eyes I thought I would be worthwhile doing a quick comparison of the two, and what first impressions the airline has made on this spirited flyer.
Yes I did have high expectations, and I must admit I was ready for certain ‘opportunities’ such as an older fleet, and icy customer service, and after reading many of the comments here, very basic catering.
I’ll keep this brief, I’m not going to spend all my Sunday typing this (and make you spend all your Sunday reading this), but hopefully some of you can relate to my comments.
Here goes.

Pre-flight (website, price)
Virgin’s site leaves a lot to be desired, with random crashes, and other bugs making booking sometimes a challenge. Qantas’ design seems much cleaner, streamlined, and easier to use, particularly with the QFF integration (VFF system seems to work outside the main VA site). Pricewise Qantas on this occasion was cheaper than Virgin. I’m sure it’s the case of Virgin increasing prices and Qantas trying to complete lowering prices. Virgin is good, but Qantas is better.
Virgin 0, Qantas 1

Support
Phone and email support via Qantas is basically useless. Long hold and reply times (if you get an email reply at all). Sometimes you’ll get a good CSR, with amazing customer service, but I usually don’t hold my breath. I’ve only used Virgin support once, great experience.
Virgin1, Qantas 0

Check-In
I walk toward the ‘service’ counter at Melbourne and was told by the CSR at the line to use the self serve check in machines. I insisted that I wanted to use the counter check-in, but the CSR insisted back I should use the kiosks, the counter check-in is basically for special need customers. Fine, I walked over to the kiosk, check-in there was hassle free. I installed the baggage tags and used self serve bag drop too, bag drop CSR have been made obsolete! I must admit it was quick and easy, but I missed the customer service interaction, and I can’t stop the thought this smacks of cost cutting. No such reduction of service at the Virgin counters. Virgin feels like the premium deal here.
Virgin 1, Qantas 0

Pre-departure
The PA announcements seemed quite ‘bogan’ (without being disrespectful) compared to the opposition. Virgin’s lounge seems classy in comparison, with a clean and fresh terminal in comparison.
Virgin 1, Qantas 0

In-Flight (General, Fleet, Presentation)
Overall it was good, but not something I’d write home about. Qantas fleet seem older in comparison to Virgin. In the few seats I flew in, the area around the seat connection to the floor of the aircraft had about 4 week’s worth of food crumbs there (pics to follow). Internal windows had cleaning residue on pretty much every window of every flight I was on. Fleet presentation need a kick up the bum, but I guess cost cutting has taken its toll? Virgin in comparison – clean, fresh fleet, no such issues.
Seats space seem more compact in Virgin aircraft.
Captain announcements were highly technical compared to Virgins’, spelling out flight routes, conditions ect. Nice touch.
I did have one hard landing in CNS, I hear most Q group pilots like to nail that runway
Virgin 1, Qantas 0

In-Flight (Entertainment)
2 out of the 3 sectors used drop down screens and the third used in-seat entertainment (newer 737-800). Points here to Qantas, Virgin has basically decided to abandon in-flight entertainment (no I don’t consider using my own device as in-flight entertainment provided by the airline)
Virgin 0, Qantas 1

In-Flight (Service)
CSR experience – staff are a lot older, however while service was ‘cold’, not as much as I expected, and I certainly didn’t get any rude staff, and service was effective. I admit I missed the eye candy on Virgin flights haha. Catering took a lot longer to come out compared to the Virgin offering, but I guess on VA there’s less food to bring out?
Virgin / Qantas TIE!

In-Flight (Catering)
Yes I did get my snack box style catering, no tray. BUT what they lack in quantity they make up in quality. WOW, I had breakfast, lunch and dinner on my various sectors. B/fast was yoghurt, with muesli from a boutique in Victoria, while small this was the best yoghurt/muesli I’ve ever had. Lunch was a Beef curry in a pastry roll, and dinner was a snack box of small cheese, crackers and fruit chutney. Drinks were fine, juice, coffee ect.
Virgin in comparison is abysmal, I had a sandwich one time, it was basically ham and cheese between 1 week old bread, for about $10. I’d rather go hungry. They do provide complementary coffee and water, an improvement over providing nothing like the good old days.
From my whole experience, Qantas catering is the biggest point of differentiation over Virgin, the food is on a whole new level, and complementary too. Well done Qantas and keep up the good work. Virgin, take heed!
Virgin 0, Qantas 1

Upon Arrival
Disembarking is only done through the aerobridge via the front of the aircraft on Qantas, Virgin utilise this plus the rear via stairs. Therefore disembarking took longer for passengers at the middle and rear of the aircraft. Not a big deal, but points here to Virgin.
Virgin 1, Qantas 0

So the tally comes to:
Virgin 5, Qantas 3

I guess the question comes up, is Qantas Australia’s new LCC? Has or will Virgin take over the premium spot? Maybe we’re half way there, and with more changes to Virgin (eg. complementary snacks to all passengers, fixing the website), and more cost cutting at Qantas, it could be an interesting milestone in Australian aviation.

Comments please, and my flame-suit is fully installed

http://i62.tinypic.com/vhge8n.jpg - Qantas Fleet Presentation opportunity!

http://i59.tinypic.com/2zss0a0.jpg - Qantas 737-800 Cabin (older fleet)

 

[mannej]

It's hard to be objective with a very small sample size. Both airlines have their flaws making it hard to infer that QF are a LCC.

For example, fleet presentation.

Found this on Instagram last night... View attachment 23862

There are others who think the simple check in experience is much better than waiting in line.

It's an interesting topic but i think you need much more of a sample size before you make an inference with more weight behind it.

 

[docjames]

Nice post.

I think you've summed up the strengths and weaknesses of both carriers quite succinctly.

 

[eastwest101]

Its a fairly good summary of the most common things that Australian domestic travellers see, and is mostly consistent with what I have seen. It may be possible to add in more details about fares and fees, differences between travel class (Y vs J), fleet details, what happens with IIROPS and Priority boarding execution as other things that are commonly seen/discussed on here (without going into all the complexities of the frequent flyer schemes and status benefits - which would require their own massive list/thread to cover properly).

I think the title of the thread could be more along the lines of "Comparison between QF and VA domestic products" so that people could be encouraged to contribute/discuss without too much flaming!

 

[esquire]

Check-In
I walk toward the ‘service’ counter at Melbourne and was told by the CSR at the line to use the self serve check in machines. I insisted that I wanted to use the counter check-in, but the CSR insisted back I should use the kiosks, the counter check-in is basically for special need customers. Fine, I walked over to the kiosk, check-in there was hassle free. I installed the baggage tags and used self serve bag drop too, bag drop CSR have been made obsolete! I must admit it was quick and easy, but I missed the customer service interaction, and I can’t stop the thought this smacks of cost cutting. No such reduction of service at the Virgin counters. Virgin feels like the premium deal here.
Virgin 1, Qantas 0

Wow. So you would rather line up at a usually understaffed check in line and wait, (and sometimes wait and wait and even in the priority line....whilst someone in front with 10 bags argues about weight restrictions etc etc) so you can interact with someone to do the same thing?

For those of us who check-in with equipment/baggage for work, QF's self serve check-in is far from cost cutting but more about efficiency to me the passenger (and no doubt the airlines check in processes) and it is a clear winner over VA.

 

[TheEmu]

Nice summary albeit from a very small sample.
Some recent observations of my own: flew PVG-SYD in Y last week - no amenity kits - very LCC IMHO, and poor compared to MrsTheEmu's experience in Thai Y a few weeks prior. Thai's Porsche Design J amenities kit also looks much nicer than QF's but no PJs for an o'night flight.
Boarding my (UM) nephew and neice onto QF in TSV yesterday: Rafferty's Rules - every pax for him/herself - just get on! No attempt to board or inform UMs, FFs or pax needing assistance. Poor.
By comparison, I watched the VA crew call priority boarding for their flight a few minutes earlier and it worked perfectly.

 

[eastwest101]

Nice summary albeit from a very small sample.
Some recent observations of my own: flew PVG-SYD in Y last week - no amenity kits - very LCC IMHO, and poor compared to MrsTheEmu's experience in Thai Y a few weeks prior. Thai's Porsche Design J amenities kit also looks much nicer than QF's but no PJs for an o'night flight.
Boarding my (UM) nephew and neice onto QF in TSV yesterday: Rafferty's Rules - every pax for him/herself - just get on! No attempt to board or inform UMs, FFs or pax needing assistance. Poor.
By comparison, I watched the VA crew call priority boarding for their flight a few minutes earlier and it worked perfectly.

Really - you saw PB happen at TSV on VA? Thats very interesting as its one of the few places where VA PB often fails from my experience.

 

[GCC]

I've had VA platinum or Gold status and QF WP for several years so use the premium check in lines. I would give the win to VA here, mainly because they seem to be more concerned with getting you a good choice of seat, and will even block the seat next to you, which QF ground staff can't / won't do.

For the average punter though, the VA check in lines at busy airports and busy times look absolutely hellish. I think you're much better off using QF's check in system. It also looks to me that QF consistently have more staff on hand assisting pax with the check in and bag drop experience.

The QF premium phone line is one the best WP benefits we have, I haven't had to deal with a regular QFF call centre experience for a long time but don't doubt it is much as described by the OP. I have had the misfortune of speaking to the regular VA call centre and it wasn't fun, nor is it good that their phone system often doesn't detect I'm platinum and direct call appropriately. The VA platinum line is patchy by comparison to QF - some great experiences but some mediocre ones too.

Seems to me the rest is a highly subjective matter. I don't find VA FA's "warm" at all - quite the opposite even in J. QF FA's are all different but IME I've had more genuine caring assistance from them (including a fair bit of travel with small children) than I've ever had from VA. We've actually had better experiences as family in QF Y than we ever had in VA J.

I gave VA a real shot after the status match in 2011 but in the end came back to QF because VA felt like a low cost carrier, across several different factors. At the end of the day though different people like different things, and the great thing about VA working to be "premium" is that we can make a choice.

 

[Quickstatus]

Preflight: QF1 VA0: Qf website much better. Seat selection for premium pax on QF, VA seat selection for premium seats poor and buggy.
Support: QF1 VA0: QF support excellent, quick answering of calls. Very knowledgeble staff. Never had to be put through to another person
Checkin: QF1 VA0: Qf self service checkin and online checkin excellent. QF has really good smartphone app for online checkin. VA no app.
Luggage alowanve and checkthru: QF 1 VA0: QF higher luggage allowance in international flights. QF better at checking thru luggage to final destination as their alliances are deeper than VA
Destinations: QF1 VA0: Due to deeper alliances, seamless travel better with QF. QF best of all for SYD-JFK
Aircraft: QF1 VA0: A380 say no more
Coast to coast: QF0 VA1: Va better premium
Premium classes: QF 1 VA0: J and F better than VA by a long shot
Predeparture: QF1 VA0: PA announcements no problems
Lounge: QF 1 VA0: especially with international lounge overall, but Star alliance in LAX making this a closer race. Koru lounge not a good look
In-flight: QF1 VA0 (general, fleet, presentation) QF1 VA0: QF very professional.Qf always clean, aircraft well presented.
In-Flight: QF1, VA0 (entertainment) Select on Q is fantastic. Horses for courses so close for domestic but Qf ahead
In-flight QF1 VA0 (service) I prefer CC who are professional and have had some life experience.
In-flight QF1 VA0 (catering) You get what you pay for. Qantas premium has better catering iMHO but its close
Upon arrival: QF1 VA0 . Dont want to exit stairs because I dont want to breathe aircraft exhaust fumes. Prefer aerobridge. VA stairs thing is a gimmick because the time it takes you to walk down and then rejoin the rest of pax in terminal is the same or longer. Inthe meantime you breathe fumes, rained on etc etc.
QF award seats: QF1 VA0. Just recently I booked 3 return first class classic award seats SYD-LAX. Cant do that on VA.
On time performance: QF1 VA0: Recent stats- QF better on time 12 out of 12 conecutive months

So Qf by a long mile.......

But my daughter has VA platinum to hedge our bets.......

 

[boomy]

Judging by the ticket prices, QF is not a low-cost carrier.

 

[Steelo]

The analysis is very subjective - seriously why would you rate queuing up to check your baggage in as being superior when there is a great automated system - and assistance on call if you need. You make no mention of the significant time you save from not standing in a queue.

In relation to leaving the plane - I am surprised that any one would rate leaving a plane by stairs is superior to an aero bridge.

I am also not sure how eye candy can be a substitute for years of skills of an experienced flight attendant.

As for pre departure - not sure what you are comparing but I doubt VA lounges favourably compare with Qantas Club or their Business Lounge.

 

[freepyjamas]

By world standards, for domestic airlines, they're both pretty good.

Best thing QF has done in ages, is the automated check-in kiosks. Beats the hell out of me why anyone would want to queue up for 5 minutes when you can be checked in, in 30 seconds. I don't mind a bit of human interaction, but queuing is something I'm more than happy to avoid. Maybe the OP is British

Re experience vs eye candy… personally I'd go for experienced eye candy. That can't be too hard to manage, can it?

 

[davidj]

Just a few followup points (I'm enjoying reading the comments).

I did fail to mention priority boarding (some others have mentioned this). I felt this was very hit and miss with Qantas. The poor Cairns business passengers had to fight their way to the beginning of the line to 'self serve' priority boarding, no dedicated lane or first call to business passengers. In Brisbane this was handled better. However I think Melbourne missed out too. I feel priority boarding is very consistent with Virgin, with usually a call out to status and business passengers, or to those needing special assistance to board first.

Steelo, in regards to check-in I do mention Qantas was "...was quick and easy". It does work well but it feels like a cheap and fast option? Any why force customers to use this? Virgin too has check-in kiosks, albeit less the automatic baggage drop off. I did have to queue for the Qantas bag dropoff, but the time was shorter than Virgins bag drop counter, and I'm not 'forced' to use the kiosk at Virgin.

Yes review is subjective and small Qantas sample size, but how does that saying go, the first impression is the lasting impression?

The point of the article? To show Qantas is not the end all be all premium product as it once was, and that 'plub' Virgin has taken massive strides in taking its product to new levels since its prime Virgin Blue LCC days. Arguably Virgin has moved to new levels while Qantas has moved just as much but downwards.

Will I fly Qantas again? I sure will. Does Qantas need all the customer support it can get in the current market? It sure does. However its given itself a challenge with the change in product and service mix downwards (offset by cost savings obviously).

Yes we're lucky to be serviced by these two amazing airlines.

 

[under the radar]

in reference to 'human' desk check in versus 'machine' self check in...quite simply, machines cant stroke your 'ego' :shock: ...fortunately I don't need mine stroked..so im happy to glide thru QFs automated system

 

[davidj]

Re experience vs eye candy… personally I'd go for experienced eye candy. That can't be too hard to manage, can it?

Are you suggesting a Qantas Virgin merger?

 

[Moopere]

Wow. So you would rather line up at a usually understaffed check in line and wait, (and sometimes wait and wait and even in the priority line....whilst someone in front with 10 bags argues about weight restrictions etc etc) so you can interact with someone to do the same thing?

For those of us who check-in with equipment/baggage for work, QF's self serve check-in is far from cost cutting but more about efficiency to me the passenger (and no doubt the airlines check in processes) and it is a clear winner over VA.

The self serve checkin thing at QF is a polarising subject I think. I know for sure that a lot of FFers love it, but equally, a lot hate it - I'm in the hate it bracket. I don't mind a bit of human interaction myself, I usually see bank tellers rather than an ATM for the same reason, and the self serve at major supermarkets just drives me bonkers.

For the times I'm not travelling J I have status to fall back on (with VA) and get to use the priority checkin lane so wait times are never an issue as they probably wouldn't be for a lot of FF.

As a general thing, I'm against cutting front line staff ... who are very often the poorest remunerated anyway. How would we all feel about self serve hotel checkin for example? Whilst service levels can and do vary, sometimes a lot, in general I feel like I've had a more premium experience when I've been met and guided by a companies staff rather than interacting with a robot.

 

[maninblack]

The poor Cairns business passengers had to fight their way to the beginning of the line to 'self serve' priority boarding, no dedicated lane or first call to business

Oh dear those poor business class passengers! But seriously as one of those poor fellows if VA now has a priority boarding lane at CNS then that is a new thing. Since their introduction of business class CNS has not had one. If it has one now (?) it's a relatively new development.

Btw if there is no priority lane and no priority call then 'self serving' your way to the front is called, 'pushing in'!

 

[RooFlyer]

Good post, it appears fairly summarizing your experience. But I don't think any conclusion could call QF a LCC (if for no other reason than the (usual) cost!).

Interesting to see the comments of others about kiosk check-in. I loath them!! Mostly I check in at HBA (where we still have humans - for now) and in the Plat/J queue its never a wait anyway (or I do it on line).

If I have to check ion at SYD or MEL AND with bags I usually end up in a lather. Mainly because I object to using a machine when a human would suffice.

 

[Moopere]

Btw if there is no priority lane and no priority call then 'self serving' your way to the front is called, 'pushing in'!

Yes, I agree with you, nevertheless, I believe this is QF's system as was covered some time ago in a mammoth thread on the issue of QF's inability to provide or maintain priority lanes. I'm pretty sure we ended up with either a clear or inferred direction that QF's system of 'board at your convenience' for J and status holders translates into pushing your way forward.

 

[Flying mermaid]

Hopefully the title didn’t hit too many nerves here, this thread is meant to be objective as possible!



Check-In
I walk toward the ‘service’ counter at Melbourne and was told by the CSR at the line to use the self serve check in machines. I insisted that I wanted to use the counter check-in, but the CSR insisted back I should use the kiosks, the counter check-in is basically for special need customers. Fine, I walked over to the kiosk, check-in there was hassle free. I installed the baggage tags and used self serve bag drop too, bag drop CSR have been made obsolete! I must admit it was quick and easy, but I missed the customer service interaction, and I can’t stop the thought this smacks of cost cutting. No such reduction of service at the Virgin counters. Virgin feels like the premium deal here.
Virgin 1, Qantas 0

)

I had a fair bit of trouble with this as well and it was probably mid last year that we finally decided to stop using people and give it a go. I am now a convert and view this as a plus not a minus. We now do online checkin with boarding passes sent to our phones and with the q-tags you don't need to fiddle with the paper tags, so it literally takes 5 minutes from when we enter the terminal until we are heading to security. Much as I prefer human interaction the speed and ease means no going back to it