Possible Asia expansion?

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yohy?!

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The same documents above show BKK is doing ok too with 88% seat utilisation.

guess it depends on the month, the one I looked at showed it was the lowest at 71% - Dec 2013 I think
 

PaulST

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I'm glad to hear QF is doing well on those routes. Could they lease any more A330s?
 

suparockin

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Sad Panda face.

QFi still doesn't serve nearly enough routes on it's own metal, my wishlist would be -

* San Francisco
* Las Vegas (surely there is enough traffic from Sydney/Melbourne for this?)
* Mumbai
* Buenos Aires
* Kuala Lumpur (changing at SIN for a ****ty JQ flight sucks and is a massive time-waste)
* Anywhere is Europe that isn't London - yes I'll even settle for Frankfurt again.
 

ajw373

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guess it depends on the month, the one I looked at showed it was the lowest at 71% - Dec 2013 I think

November/December 2013 was the start of the last political crisis, so not surprising it is low.

Also surpirsed someone hasn't said as that seat utilisation is one thing, but what is more important is the yield. Not published of course. But again Qantas kept the route during a series of cut backs so logic says it is doing enough to be sustainable.
 

hutch

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Sad Panda face.

QFi still doesn't serve nearly enough routes on it's own metal, my wishlist would be -

* San Francisco
* Las Vegas (surely there is enough traffic from Sydney/Melbourne for this?)
* Mumbai
* Buenos Aires
* Kuala Lumpur (changing at SIN for a ****ty JQ flight sucks and is a massive time-waste)
* Anywhere is Europe that isn't London - yes I'll even settle for Frankfurt again.


Whilst I would like to see more QF routes on their own metal I'm not too sure how realistic it is:

* San Francisco - I would like to see QF return here, but sense they'll need a 787 for this. No much feed at SFO for them so it will need to be O&D.
* Las Vegas - Possible...but how many of those would be J passengers? And would this just take service from LAX services?
* Mumbai - don't know enough about how their previous services were.
* Buenos Aires - No chance. The move to SCL has paid off. No feed at EZE. They would be better off increasing SCL service or finding another LATAM hub.
* Kuala Lumpur - I always though KL would make a good SE-Asia hub for them. But they had they're fallen out with Malaysian who would have been a good partner to distribute QF passengers across SE-Asia... Anyway, perhaps now is not the right time approach Malaysian again.
* Frankfurt - Can't see QF returning to mainland Europe again. Hopefully the do... With the middle eastern airlines will continue increasing their offering it will be hard and expensive... is the money better spent on single flight destinations?

- I'll settle for some:
- YVR year round services
- Increased DFW service (BNE?)
- PEK?
- And when a plane can make it... ORD
- Something into Brazil one day.

On Asian services, QF used to do QF19/20 via BNE once a week. That stopped prior to BNE runway works and has never resumed? Has it be canned?
 

yohy?!

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November/December 2013 was the start of the last political crisis, so not surprising it is low.

Also surpirsed someone hasn't said as that seat utilisation is one thing, but what is more important is the yield. Not published of course. But again Qantas kept the route during a series of cut backs so logic says it is doing enough to be sustainable.

indeed, I forgot about that and I was in BKK several times during it! Cant imagine the yields would be amazing with the EK base economy fare for SYD-BKK return being around $700AUD for the last 5 odd years! Wonder if Thai Air Asia X is planning on starting any aussie routes, that might be the straw that breaks the camels back.
 

suparockin

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Whilst I would like to see more QF routes on their own metal I'm not too sure how realistic it is:

* San Francisco - I would like to see QF return here, but sense they'll need a 787 for this. No much feed at SFO for them so it will need to be O&D.
* Las Vegas - Possible...but how many of those would be J passengers? And would this just take service from LAX services?
* Mumbai - don't know enough about how their previous services were.
* Buenos Aires - No chance. The move to SCL has paid off. No feed at EZE. They would be better off increasing SCL service or finding another LATAM hub.
* Kuala Lumpur - I always though KL would make a good SE-Asia hub for them. But they had they're fallen out with Malaysian who would have been a good partner to distribute QF passengers across SE-Asia... Anyway, perhaps now is not the right time approach Malaysian again.
* Frankfurt - Can't see QF returning to mainland Europe again. Hopefully the do... With the middle eastern airlines will continue increasing their offering it will be hard and expensive... is the money better spent on single flight destinations?

- I'll settle for some:
- YVR year round services
- Increased DFW service (BNE?)
- PEK?
- And when a plane can make it... ORD
- Something into Brazil one day.

On Asian services, QF used to do QF19/20 via BNE once a week. That stopped prior to BNE runway works and has never resumed? Has it be canned?

On Vegas - "With more than 37 million total visitors in 2010, Las Vegas currently welcomes about 21,500 international passengers weekly on 144 non-stop flights from 16 foreign cities. With the addition of Terminal 3 at McCarran International Airport in 2012, Las Vegas will expand its ability to accommodate even more international flight arrivals. "
 

hutch

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On Vegas - "With more than 37 million total visitors in 2010, Las Vegas currently welcomes about 21,500 international passengers weekly on 144 non-stop flights from 16 foreign cities. With the addition of Terminal 3 at McCarran International Airport in 2012, Las Vegas will expand its ability to accommodate even more international flight arrivals. "

Not disputing Las Vegas as a destination (or its airports capacity) i'm questioning yield on those passengers. How many of the Las Vegas passengers want to fork out for a J seat?
 

smit0847

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QFs biggest problem with expansion right now is lack of aircraft!

I've always thought if VA could get it hands on another 77W that a 3 - weekly SYD-LAS service could work. It would be popular with 30 something bucks parties who have a fair bit of coin and I reckon would pay for at least Y+ if the price was right. It fits with VAs image and I *think* VS fly there? It would be a long but fun option to Europe.

As people have said time and time again, KUL will never work because it is not a business destination. It would be far more appropriate for JQ. The main reason QF has multiple services to SIN and HKG (and one of the reasons SQ and CX are such strong airlines) is because high paying business pax travel there. QF service to a lesser extent, popular tourist destinations like BKK. KUL is really neither of these.
 

ajw373

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QFs biggest problem with expansion right now is lack of aircraft!

I've always thought if VA could get it hands on another 77W that a 3 - weekly SYD-LAS service could work. It would be popular with 30 something bucks parties who have a fair bit of coin and I reckon would pay for at least Y+ if the price was right. It fits with VAs image and I *think* VS fly there? It would be a long but fun option to Europe.

As people have said time and time again, KUL will never work because it is not a business destination. It would be far more appropriate for JQ. The main reason QF has multiple services to SIN and HKG (and one of the reasons SQ and CX are such strong airlines) is because high paying business pax travel there. QF service to a lesser extent, popular tourist destinations like BKK. KUL is really neither of these.

KUL may not be a big business destination, but it is a OneWorld hub for SE Asia and the Indian Ocean and sub continent.
 

hutch

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QFs biggest problem with expansion right now is lack of aircraft!

I've always thought if VA could get it hands on another 77W that a 3 - weekly SYD-LAS service could work. It would be popular with 30 something bucks parties who have a fair bit of coin and I reckon would pay for at least Y+ if the price was right. It fits with VAs image and I *think* VS fly there? It would be a long but fun option to Europe.

As people have said time and time again, KUL will never work because it is not a business destination. It would be far more appropriate for JQ. The main reason QF has multiple services to SIN and HKG (and one of the reasons SQ and CX are such strong airlines) is because high paying business pax travel there. QF service to a lesser extent, popular tourist destinations like BKK. KUL is really neither of these.

I am not going to argue that KL is anywhere near SIN or HKG as a business destination... but there is plenty of 'business' in KL & Malaysia generally. Additionally, KL could be a OW hub for SE Asian and South Asia. Surely being a MH738 is better than being on a 3K service?
 

QPProletarian

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There's surprisingly few LAX-LAS flights by AA and quite a large chunk I've noticed is QF connections.

They are also poorly timed for QF connections, so possibly a quick O&R tag flight from LAX ala 107/108 could work for here.
 

michaele

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Just for arguments sake, what about a service into Europe (LHR or otherwise) from one of the major Asian ports QF already services?

All the HKG services arrive around 5-6pm from multiple capital cities so surely it could line up well. The expansion of Tokyo services also could be utilised.. althought HKG probably is more useful, already has a QF lounge, etc.

Do people think it would be viable? How likely would it be to find new slots into LHR (or elsewhere?) an A330 be suitable or would it have to be 747/380? Would there be enough J traffic? I would have thought so with business too and from Asia. The only other thing is with 6pm arrivals into HKG, lets say a 9pm departure.. that would arrive around 3am in LHR so maybe not...
 

yohy?!

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Just for arguments sake, what about a service into Europe (LHR or otherwise) from one of the major Asian ports QF already services?

All the HKG services arrive around 5-6pm from multiple capital cities so surely it could line up well. The expansion of Tokyo services also could be utilised.. althought HKG probably is more useful, already has a QF lounge, etc.

Do people think it would be viable? How likely would it be to find new slots into LHR (or elsewhere?) an A330 be suitable or would it have to be 747/380? Would there be enough J traffic? I would have thought so with business too and from Asia. The only other thing is with 6pm arrivals into HKG, lets say a 9pm departure.. that would arrive around 3am in LHR so maybe not...

Likely not allowed due to the EK agreement. Can be achieved with a multi-carrier ticket through EY, BA or CX.
 

Himeno

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Just for arguments sake, what about a service into Europe (LHR or otherwise) from one of the major Asian ports QF already services?
Flights to Asia only require one aircraft for daily return service. Flights to Europe require 3.

All the HKG services arrive around 5-6pm from multiple capital cities so surely it could line up well. The expansion of Tokyo services also could be utilised.. althought HKG probably is more useful, already has a QF lounge, etc.
QF has a J lounge at NRT and access to the JL and CX lounges at HND.
I don't think any Asia-Europe hub will work with the EK link up and the current management. They changed the flight times into HKG to no longer link up with the old QF29/30, then a few months later said that the hub wasn't working, so cut the HKG-LHR flight.
Australia only has 5th freedom rights out of NRT, and only 79 "units" per week (A380 - 2.5 units, 747 - 2 units, A330 - 1.5 units, 787 - 1 unit)
5th freedom to HKG is more limiting;
Capacity may be used via points in Brunei, Indonesia, Malaysia, the Philippines, Singapore and Thailand to Hong Kong on up to 7 round trip frequencies per week on each city pair.
Capacity may be used beyond Hong Kong to points in Thailand, Singapore, Japan, Republic of Korea and one point in Europe and one point in the United Kingdom on up to 8 round trip frequencies in total per week.

It isn't like SIN (unlimited except to Sri Lanka) or US (unlimited).


How likely would it be to find new slots into LHR (or elsewhere?) an A330 be suitable or would it have to be 747/380?
QF has 2 slot pairs at LHR that they aren't using. They are currently leased to another airline (BA I believe).
 

Platinum A332

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I think most of Asia seems to be doing quite OK, and I hope that it is not "streamlined" any further.

Personally I would like to see Seoul, Beijing non-stop and Guangzhou in Asia, all routes that should hopefully see an increase in traffic with the FTAs coming online.

As for India, perhaps it makes more sense for QF to extend one of its Singapore flights onto Mumbai and/or Delhi instead of offering a direct service? Perhaps QF can relaunch PER-SIN also to provide extra feed onto that service?
 

ajw373

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Likely not allowed due to the EK agreement. Can be achieved with a multi-carrier ticket through EY, BA or CX.

Forgetting about the EK agreement what exactly would it provide anyway? Time people realised that Europe, except a few flights to London is not viable for Qantas, just like Australia is not viable for most European airlines. The length of the flights means the route needs more aircraft and double hops mean extra costs with crews etc. Indeed even for BA the only thing that makes their single flight a day viable is their use of mixed fleet crew who work more hours, have less rest days en-route and are paid a lot less than their older BA crew counterparts.
 

samh004

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While everyone is thinking up possible wishlist items, I'd like to put forward (yes, out of Asia) a fifth freedom DXB-JFK/DFW/LAX option to bring back the RTW service QF used to offer. Provided you have business in the Middle East and the US, I think it'd work. Europe's not for everyone ;)
 
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