Plane downgrade with pe booking

[gazzman]

I've got a Z class MASA booked to fly SYD-SIN in August on QF5. QF has downgraded the plane from 747 to A330. With the A330 not having PE QF has put me into economy on an X class fare. I havent yet confirmed with them that this is acceptable. Am I entitled to a refund of some level in cash and points?

 

[Red Roo]

I've got a Z class MASA booked to fly SYD-SIN in August on QF5. QF has downgraded the plane from 747 to A330. With the A330 not having PE QF has put me into economy on an X class fare. I havent yet confirmed with them that this is acceptable. Am I be entitled to a refund of some level in cash and points?

Yes, you'll need to get in touch with our 24/7 Reservations team on 131313 to discuss the next steps.

Alternatively, I'd be happy to follow up for you via private message.

Apologies for any inconvenience caused on this occasion.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I've got a Z class MASA booked to fly SYD-SIN in August on QF5. QF has downgraded the plane from 747 to A330. With the A330 not having PE QF has put me into economy on an X class fare. I havent yet confirmed with them that this is acceptable. Am I entitled to a refund of some level in cash and points?

you shouldn't have to accept a downgrade when an airline is mucking you around and making decisions for their own commercial gain.

if you aren't happy with the 'next steps' of the reservations team, try your local consumer affairs organisation in your state (it's a free service). they can advise you on your rights, if any.

this is happening far too often lately... qantas is chopping services, downgrading passengers, with little apparent regard.

it is starting to make a bit of a mockery of their 'book with confidence' slogan.

qantas is making a very good case why we need to have stronger consumer protection laws in Australia, like those of the EU.

 

[hutch]

Oh please not the EU laws...
If you are unhappy with the downgrade and they don't compensate you the difference, you should get a full refund.

 

[ketsuzei]

Oh please not the EU laws...
If you are unhappy with the downgrade and they don't compensate you the difference, you should get a full refund.

A full refund falls short of adequate compensation if, for example, fares or awards you could have booked elsewhere are no longer available because QF have taken their sweet time about announcing route changes.

 

[hutch]

TRUE, but that's life though. There are going to be circumstances in life where you might buy product A, it fails to meet you expectations/or is not available, you get a refund and find out that product B ain't available at the price you could have got it.

I'd like to think that QF will offer compensation above the necessary if they downgrade a customer to Y... but perhaps im just being ignorant.

I do feel sorry for airlines, it can't be an easy industry to run a business in - planes break, passengers/staff gets sick, weather, disasters etc etc. Granted, there are better managers than others (and qf's current lot aren't world leaders), but I'm sure passengers being downgraded is not an issue isolated to QF. QF needs to improve massively its communication with customers (particularly proactive comms).

In any case there is no other PE to SIN.

 

[ketsuzei]

TRUE, but that's life though.

"Life", from a corporate perspective, is also finding a way to adequately compensate your customers when you've made a purely commercial decision that works against them.

I personally don't think that a mere refund of the points difference -- which is essentially the same as saying "let's just pretend you never made this booking in the first place" -- comes close to fair.

It is simple, though.

 

[hutch]

Not sure I am saying it is "fair", I think I am saying that these things happen... "Fairness" is subjective. If we turn to the law, legally I very much doubt, anything more than a refund is the likely outcome.

Out of interest, what do you think is adequate compensation?

 

[ketsuzei]

I think a distinction needs to be made between "planes break, passengers/staff gets sick, weather, disasters etc etc." and "People bought our tickets in good faith and then we made a commercial decision not to supply what we'd sold".

I recently had two HKG-SYD flights downgraded from F to J. I managed to negotiate an outcome I considered reasonable (which will obviously vary from person to person) for one of them, and still feel like I've been left hanging on the other. Service recovery is tricky when things go wrong on the day, but when you have at least a month to prepare ("booked to fly SYD-SIN in August on QF5"), your attitude to customer service can be painfully exposed.

 

[hutch]

Yes true, I agree there is a difference. And I agree the QF ability to deal with its planned route/fleet changes has been substandard.

But in my opinion a reasonable outcome is a refund of fare difference (and possibly some) if the OP agrees to fly Y, or a cheaper upgrade to J. If those aren't acceptable, then I think a full refund is reasonable. But that's just me.

 

[ketsuzei]

Yes true, I agree there is a difference. And I agree the QF ability to deal with its planned route/fleet changes has been substandard.

But in my opinion a reasonable outcome is a refund of fare difference (and possibly some) if the OP agrees to fly Y, or a cheaper upgrade to J. If those aren't acceptable, then I think a full refund is reasonable. But that's just me.

I agree with the "and possibly some" and "cheaper upgrade to J" bits.

I've been stuffed around a lot by QF over the past 18 months or so, but that's probably in large part a reflection of how much I'm interacting with them... I can't say that I have a much more positive impression of VA after giving them much less business.

But the straw that broke this camel's back was the unilateral cancellation of the chauffeur services for US flights... it doesn't affect any of my bookings at all, but it tells me that I'd be foolish to take their promises too seriously.

 

[hutch]

The decision to cancel chauffeur services for US flights is short-sighted, reduces the 'premium appeal' of QF, removes product consistency and is just a very poor decision (by a management team which does 2 bad things for every 1 good thing).

 

[mannej]

The decision to cancel chauffeur services for US flights is short-sighted, reduces the 'premium appeal' of QF, removes product consistency and is just a very poor decision (by a management team which does 2 bad things for every 1 good thing).

There was never any consistency with CD as it was. Some routes had it, others had exceptions and so on.

 

[hutch]

I think my reference was more to "all routes over 12hours", now if you fly out of Oz long-haul west you get it, but not long-haul east... but point taken.

 

[mannej]

I think my reference was more to "all routes over 12hours", now if you fly out of Oz long-haul west you get it, but not long-haul east... but point taken.

Were there not issues with JNB being included on the list (it seems to stick in my mind)? 63 is over 12 hours but 64 is not.

 

[nonpop]

Sipping my morning coffee, here are my thoughts on compensation where the pax is downgraded would be as per the following options. Some of them may seem overly biased towards the consumer, but there needs to be an incentive for the airline to not do this at their whim. Having had it happen to myself I know what mental downer it can have on a trip especially when it is a 'special' trip IMHO:

* Full refund option
Or
* Downgrade to next class
* Refund of fare (cash or points) difference at time of booking i.e charging for the lower class ticket as if it were priced at time of original booking (unless it is cheaper 'now')
* The benefits of the original booking class such as lounge pass, priority check-in & boarding
* Original points & SCs (including any double-ups / offers / bonuses / promos e.g double SC offer)
Or
* Upgrade to next class at a significantly reduced rate i.e charging for the higher class ticket as if it were priced at time of original booking (unless it is cheaper 'now')
* The benefits of the new booking class such as lounge access, priority check-in & boarding etc
* New ticket points & SCs (including any double-ups / offers / bonuses / promos e.g double SC offer)
Or
* Moved to another route or new flight time of reasonable same length in same class of original booking
* All benefits of new ticket and points & SCs to be paid at new flight details

I suspect there are other options but these are the first that spring to mind.

 

[juddles]

The airline industry is a mongrel. So much harder to make a profit than other more equitable industries. If a private (non state-owned = unlimited bleed) airline did not have the flexibility to change product to try to stay afloat, then they would quickly die a very nasty comercial death.

BUT.....

There are so many ways for airlines to ¨compensate¨ or ameliorate such changes. Points, cheap upgrades, etc etc. Any modern airline should have thses skills honed to a fine edge, as loss of loyalty is fatal now.

 

[BAM1748]

I like the way QF downgrade passengers, most other industries offer an upgrade when a supplier changes what's on offer.

I just bought (well my company did) a new car, I actually selected white which was $500 cheaper but when white wasn't available in a reasonable time Ford UPGRADED me to what ever colour I wanted at nil cost. Ford didn't downgrade me one model.

QF does a lot of things right, but they lag in a lot of things as well.

They should simply say this flight is now Y, however we can offer an upgrade you if you can change dates or on a future flight.

Matt

 

[JohnK]

TRUE, but that's life though. There are going to be circumstances in life where you might buy product A, it fails to meet you expectations/or is not available, you get a refund and find out that product B ain't available at the price you could have got it.

I'd like to think that QF will offer compensation above the necessary if they downgrade a customer to Y... but perhaps im just being ignorant.

I do feel sorry for airlines, it can't be an easy industry to run a business in - planes break, passengers/staff gets sick, weather, disasters etc etc. Granted, there are better managers than others (and qf's current lot aren't world leaders), but I'm sure passengers being downgraded is not an issue isolated to QF. QF needs to improve massively its communication with customers (particularly proactive comms).

In any case there is no other PE to SIN.

Yes life is tough for most of us.

If I book premium economy and it is no longer offered then I would expect

- a full refund of the difference between the classes at the time of booking with adequate compensation on top for being inconvenienced
- a free 1 class upgrade for future use

This goes for any airline not just Qantas. I don't think I am being unreasonable.

 

[ketsuzei]

Yes life is tough for most of us.

If I book premium economy and it is no longer offered then I would expect

- a full refund of the difference between the classes at the time of booking with adequate compensation on top for being inconvenienced
- a free 1 class upgrade for future use

This goes for any airline not just Qantas. I don't think I am being unreasonable.

I don't like your chances based on my recent experience of two F>J downgrades as an asterixed-WP1, but look forward to hearing any success stories.

Most likely to just be "a full refund of the difference between the classes", i.e. "Let's pretend it never happened".