Pakistani airliner crashes in Karachi

[AviatorInsight]

Would it be 20 seconds on the ground for a 2km scrape? 5-10 seconds to realise whats happened and react, and 10-15 secs to get airborne again?

Well lets say that they were travelling at 150kts (that‘s pretty conservative given there’s not as much drag because there’s no gear!).
150kts = 77m/s
If it was a 2km scrape:
2000m / 77m
= 25 seconds!

And if they happened to be slower than that then it’s even longer!

That‘s a long time to think about what has happened, make a decision and then get airborne again. The fact there was still enough thrust being produced to get airborne again and gain some height is incredible.

 

[jb747]

Ah ... so what you are saying that even though 'brakes were applied and reverse thrust applied', they wouldn't have worked. Well, I'm obstinately still surprised that they could get into the air after a km or two scraping along the ground.

Would it be 20 seconds on the ground for a 2km scrape? 5-10 seconds to realise whats happened and react, and 10-15 secs to get airborne again?

How do we know there was a 2km scrape? The images I've seen aren't anywhere near that length.

That‘s a long time to think about what has happened, make a decision and then get airborne again. The fact there was still enough thrust being produced to get airborne again and gain some height is incredible.

Decision? I don't know that there was any decision making going on.

I wonder if they didn't get airborne via the EK route...kinetic energy to height. But in their case the engines wound up before they reached the ground again. Pity, 'cos if the power hadn't come back up, they wouldn't have gotten away from the runway environs.

 

[RooFlyer]

How do we know there was a 2km scrape? The images I've seen aren't anywhere near that length.

Oh, good grief. Error converting feet to metres , sorry. I think I was wagging it when they taught division by 3

Av Herald says scrape marks of the left engine start 4500 feet down the runway, the right engine scrape marks begin 5500 feet down the runway. About 6000-7000 feet past the runway threshold the scrape marks end.

So about 2500 ft of left or right scraping and if so, abt 11 secs using AviatorInsight's numbers. Given that the engines don't look structurally that battered in the pics in the AH report, I guess the engines might have juuuust touched along the ground, not necessarily at the same time.

 

[Happy Trails]

Solution?

 

[RooFlyer]

Solution?

Better solution (choose your country):

 

[jb747]

Better solution (choose your country):

Probably better to choose the operator. I can give you a number of examples from the USA that are almost as bad as this. I've also seen very good pilots come out of all sorts of places.

 

[Quickstatus]

The amount of times I was asked to just give someone (from that entire part of the world) their instrument rating so they could go back home was astounding.

It extends to the higher education market (universities) as well. Fee paying = pressure on fee collectors to not kill the Golden egg goose

 

[Quickstatus]

Generally, what do Approach controllers monitor in order to annunciate “cleared to land”

 

[BAM1748]

In case you missed it.

Pakistani pilots grounded over 'fake licences'

Pakistan's aviation minister said a large number of pilots cheated in exams or have fake qualifications.

www.bbc.com

 

[p--and--t]

In case you missed it.

Pakistani pilots grounded over 'fake licences'

Pakistan's aviation minister said a large number of pilots cheated in exams or have fake qualifications.

www.bbc.com

Initially I was a bit bemused by the seeming conflict between these two statements.

"Mr Khan said investigations had found that more than 260 of the country's 860 active pilots had either fake licences or had cheated in their exams."

"Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) has grounded 150 pilots over claims they may not hold a valid licence."

However I then discovered that there are 3 "schedule" airlines based in Pakistan with the other 2 having 14 planes between them (plus a couple of tiny charter companies).

But, even that discovery doesn't account for the difference of 110 pilots that have not be stood aside. The discrepancy still exists. The cynic in me says maybe those who paid the appropriate bribe or married into the right family?

Also given they have known about the unqualified pilot problem since the 2018 crash, why was no action taken in this regard?

 

[AviatorInsight]

Generally, what do Approach controllers monitor in order to annunciate “cleared to land”

This is where ATC screwed up too. No hand over was done and because Approach was handling most of the descent, decided to call the tower for the clearance to land and then pass the clearance on to the crew. As such pertinent info was not passed on, nor picked up by the tower. I find it was such a weird thing to do.

Approach/Departure/Centre controllers don’t sit in the tower, but in a building around the airport perimeter. All they can see is the aircraft details on the display. Speed, altitude, call sign etc. The approach controller gave them several attempts to correct their profile but it was ignored.

 

[Quickstatus]

EASA suspends PIA From EU for minimum 6 months over failures to stand up a quality assurance program and allegations that Pakistan is unable to manage pilot licensing