Pacific Blue has ways of making you disembark

[kyle]

Pacific Blue has ways of making you disembark - National - theage.com.au

 

[FL360]

Having incident like this published on national newspaper actually saves the environment because it saves passengers complaining to the airline / consumer authority etc.... and the aim of complaining has been achieved. We all know how Pacific blue operates with tight resources...

 

[JohnK]

This sounds very childish.

I have not heard of any of these conditions before. People who are on standby? People who boarded last? Wow! Forcing people off a flight. Why not just hold a raffle as to who stays and who gets to go to their destination?

Does this story reflect on the DJ group in anyway? Probably about as relevant as JQ and QF but still not very good publicity for the DJ group. Definitely a story to mention to those interested in travelling LCCs....

 

[Mal]

I had a look through a previous DJ itinerary and the DJ website, and could not find any information on their overbooking policy.

Maybe it's available through Guest Services or at the airport (or maybe it's only for internal use only!)

 

[Travel Guru]

I can understand those who were flying Standby being offloaded first, as theyre usually staff or agents travelling on heavily discounted tickets, but can't see when flying on a full fare how when you checked in has any relevance to offloading in such circumstances.

TG

 

[Dave Noble]

Seems a reasonable approach. I suspect that it would be rare to have to offload people after boarding

Asking for volunteers and offering a voluntary compensation to then

Then onto Involuntary Denied Boardings

Those on standby, then tough, that is the peril of standby
then those who were last to check in

Doesn't seem overly unfair. Sounds like Australia may be lack on legislation dictating mandatory compensation for IDBs though

Dave

 

[turbo]

rather than wasting everyones time and annoying the bejesus out of those offloaded, why not get another crew member? i'm pretty sure you could get hold of one in under 90mins if you had to. Having a contingency plan for this sort of incident should be standard in any risk management strategy for any business worth its salt. Its certainly not an unforseeable event.

 

[Dave Noble]

rather than wasting everyones time and annoying the bejesus out of those offloaded, why not get another crew member? i'm pretty sure you could get hold of one in under 90mins if you had to. Having a contingency plan for this sort of incident should be standard in any risk management strategy for any business worth its salt. Its certainly not an unforseeable event.

The airline probably does have risk management strategies and it could well be that in this case, offloading some people was the most effective way of managing the risk

SJ is not the 1st airline to ever have to offload passengers

Dave

 

[pauly7]

The airline probably does have risk management strategies and it could well be that in this case, offloading some people was the most effective way of managing the risk
Dave

Cmon Dave, even Virgin doesn't scrape that low surely . Their back up staff and the back up back up staff must have been *sick* as well surely!

 

[Dave Noble]

Cmon Dave, even Virgin doesn't scrape that low surely . Their back up staff and the back up back up staff must have been *sick* as well surely!

What is low about it? the only difference between this and other offloading is that the offloading occurred after boarding rather than being done at check in

I am sure that that they will have assessed the situation and deduced that this was the most effective way to proceed

Dave

 

[oz_mark]

Cmon Dave, even Virgin doesn't scrape that low surely . Their back up staff and the back up back up staff must have been *sick* as well surely!

Sometimes all the contigency planning in the world doesn't work out, and you are left with no other options. This probably was the back up plan of the back up plan.

 

[Platy]

What is low about it? Dave

Surely you're trying to wind us up?! :shock:

How about that their customers were treated with disdain?
That customers endured a mini witch hunt on board to locate chosen folk for removal?
That any risk management would need to look beyond the immediate situation and assess the highly likely negative national publicity and loss of future business from affected passengers?
That 13 out of 165 pax left high and dry is a significant proportion?
That with overbooked passengers the airline has time to manage the situation with a reasonable degree of control and civility and hopefully with agreeable and duly compensated volunteers?

It troubles me that as airlines levels of customer service slide ever backwards people are more ready to accept lowering standards as they become the norm.

My visitors from the UK this week were treated atrociously by QF in being sold a QF flight (by QF) which turned out to be a codeshare on Jetstar resulting in great confusion about where to check in (why not at QF desk?), correct baggage allowances (Jetstar, Qf domestic or QF international?) and lack of on board catering (why when full service is being paid for?). The QF check in person wanted NOTHING to do with them and their polite enquiries - not us, go to Jetstar, nothing to do with me...Just one example of airlines treating customers with complete disdain. And no surprise these folk now use Emirates first class between Oz and UK every time instead of QF.

 

[Dave Noble]

Surely you're trying to wind us up?! :shock:

How about that their customers were treated with disdain?
That customers endured a mini witch hunt on board to locate chosen folk for removal?
That any risk management would need to look beyond the immediate situation and assess the highly likely negative national publicity and loss of future business from affected passengers?
That 13 out of 165 pax left high and dry is a significant proportion?
That with overbooked passengers the airline has time to manage the situation with a reasonable degree of control and civility and hopefully with agreeable and duly compensated volunteers?

They hadn't overbooked. It sounds like that there was a last minute loss of a cabin crew which reduced the number of passengers that they were able to take at the last minute after boarding

What are they supposed to do? Hold a raffle perhaps?

According to the article they 1st asked for volunteers

after volunteers then they were going to do to Involuntary offloading and that the selection of passengers would firstly be those that had been booked on a standby basis and then subsequently based on last to check in, next off

After telling people that involuntary offloading was going to be based on check in time, they gave another opportunity for people to take a voluntary offload

Those offloaded voluntarily were given a free flight voucher

They also used some discretion and skipped over those heading over for a wedding

To me, this looks like a fair method of selection. What exactly is wrong with this approach?

Dave

 

[Platy]

What exactly is wrong with this approach?

Dave

Dave, you claimed that dumping folk rather than having reserve staff available was a legitimate risk management strategy. You then went on to say that dumping passengers was not low.

The contrary viewpoint is that DJ should have had reserve staff to close off the risk of staff illness and not put its customers in such a compromising position.

I was on a QF flight one time that was delayed NRT-CNS and on the CNS-SYD leg stopped in BNE for a fresh crew (as allowable crew hours expired). Sure, we arrived late, but at least they found a whole new crew at short notice.

Surely, you are not really suggesting that dumping folk off an aircraft is good customer relations or creates good publicity, are you?

And no I wouldn't have agreed with their selection method if I had paid for a full price ticket and checked in later rather than sooner - nor would I expect to be involuntarily dumped if I had status with the airline...opinions of what's "fair" in such a situation will inevitably differ...

 

[straitman]

Dave, you claimed that dumping folk rather than having reserve staff available was a legitimate risk management strategy. You then went on to say that dumping passengers was not low.

The contrary viewpoint is that DJ should have had reserve staff to close off the risk of staff illness and not put its customers in such a compromising position.

Surely, you are not really suggesting that dumping folk off an aircraft is good customer relations or creates good publicity, are you?

I don't think Dave actually said that this was or should be a prefered option, just that it is a practical option when there are no others left.

Sometimes all the contigency planning in the world doesn't work out, and you are left with no other options. This probably was the back up plan of the back up plan.

I agree that this is the most probable scenario.

If you get to the point of having used your backup staff and still need one more what do you suggest they do :?:

Maybe cancel the flight completely :!: Not really a good alternate as you then upset 168 people instead of, maybe, 13.

 

[Mal]

I have requested a copy of any Virgin Blue/Pacific Blue policy on overbooking/not being able to be carried on your booked flight through the DJ feedback channels.

Will be interesting to see what I get back (and I wave to the DJ staff who are reading this thread who may check up on that request )

Next time I'm at the International airport, I'll also ask to see the Qantas Policy which is clearly marked in the CoC as available at the airport: "Qantas' policy on overbooking is available at Qantas international airport ticket counters and boarding gates"

 

[littl_flier]

Whilst I understand why the passengers were offloaded and think that it was the right path to take regardless of the fact that they had to be offloaded once upon the aircraft, the thing that gets me/annoys me is that late passengers who didn't own up were threatened to receive no compensation. Providing they had checked in earlier than the minimum time, then late check-in shouldn't have been a factor.

Ok, so that seems to be policy and it's fine so if you take out late checking passengers, why tell them they're not going to get any compensation and they'll need to find their own way to CHC? It's the airline's fault they didn't have adequate crew backups in place and at no stage should the passengers have to fund their own changes due to a fault within the control on Pacific Blue.

Yes, passengers needed to be off loaded and I understand why. Just not the tactics to bully the last of passengers off. Force them off and give them compensation, or offer a better compensation package in the first place. People seem to jump on FT at the chance of a "bump" voucher. If they'd offered $300 and a seat on the flight through BNE, I wonder if they'd needed to conduct a witch hunt.

 

[Mal]

Yes, they needed be off loaded and I understand why. Just not the tactics to bully the last of passengers off. Force them off and give them compensation, or offer a better compensation package in the first place. People seem to jump on FT at the chance of a "bump" voucher. If they'd offered $300 and a seat on the flight through BNE, I wonder if they'd needed to conduct a witch hunt.

I agree. People will volunteer to have their head shaved for $50 in some places. $300 to be delayed (eg)8 hours to NZ is a no-brainer for them!

It's an interesting situation though. I don't really blame Pacific Blue for the incident - obviously they just couldn't get someone in the time required to get an additional staff member and delaying the plane for say 3 hours may not be appropriate.

Where I do have the issue, is that the onboard antics seemed unprofessional. I wasn't there, but if I was ever in the same situation, I would want to know what my rights are. The "last people to check-in will be disembarked with no compensation" is just a total joke, and something I would expect from a bottom of the barrel airline - not DJ/Pacific Blue.

Yeah it sounds like a bit of a media beatup, but where there is smoke...

 

[Dave Noble]

Where I do have the issue, is that the onboard antics seemed unprofessional. I wasn't there, but if I was ever in the same situation, I would want to know what my rights are. The "last people to check-in will be disembarked with no compensation" is just a total joke, and something I would expect from a bottom of the barrel airline - not DJ/Pacific Blue.

I don't necessarily trust that the situation was a pantomime as suggested by the newspaper ; to me , when extracting out the facts from the hype , the approach seemed logical given the situation of having to offload 13 people

Voluntary Offloading with a bribe
Involuntary Offloading with whatever the involuntary denied boarding compensation is on that route

I would be surprised if IDB compensation is zero

Involuntary offloading based on check in time seems a fair approach to me

Not knowing what happened with DJ that led to this situation, it is hard to say whether it should have been able to have been circumvented

The trouble with having press no longer interested in reporting facts is having to extract facts from hyberbole

Obviously it would be better to have been able to replace the staff member and I assume that DJ has standby staff, but if the removal of the crew member happened v close to departure, it may not have been feasible to wait for one to arrive

Dave

 

[NM]

The contrary viewpoint is that DJ should have had reserve staff to close off the risk of staff illness and not put its customers in such a compromising position.

Perhaps they did have reserve staff. And perhaps the reserve staff had already been called upon by the time this flight was boarding. And perhaps one of the FAs got his/her finger jammed in the BP scanned as they boarded the last passenger and had to go to hospital for x-ray, stitches etc.

So now we have an aircraft that has been fully boarded ad at the very last minute there is a situation where a reserve FA cannot be obtained quickly. They now have a few choices:

• Close the doors, push back and go and hope not to get caught - ain't gonna happen
• Wait until another FA can be located - perhaps several hours and flow-on delays
• Cancel the entire flight - and deal with 165 problems
• Deplane everyone and deal with off-loading passengers in the gate lounge - could take a long time
• Remove passengers per their over-sold policy, which appears to be standbys followed by those last to check-in.

The same thing could have happened if an aircraft went tech and they had to replace a 737-800 with a 737-700 after everyone had checked in. The same problem but in this example would have been handled at the gate and not on the aircraft.

The only problem I see here is the report of the way the staff allegedly spoke to the passengers about it. And we only have one side of that story available to digest. I can't fault the process, but perhaps the execution was not optimal.