"oneworld" award (132.4K/249.6K/318K/455K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

[madrooster]

A number of people have PMed me their award record locators and I've been able to pull out a large amount of data on fuel surcharges being levied for tickets issued in Australia. Thank you to those of you who have done so.

This data is now available to everyone in the wiki in this thread (at the top, expand the wiki to view the entire wiki).

When we have enough data points, everyone will be able to calculate their oneworld award fuel surcharges using the list in the wiki to check if they have been overcharged or not.

For those who are still in the planning stages of their oneworld awards, it could be a great planning resource for minimising your fuel surcharges.

I would highly appreciate more data points - the more flights/routes we have data for, the better. If you would like to contribute your itinerary, please PM me your record locator and I will see what I can extract from it.

I'm now accepting any itinerary - a simple one way or return award is just as useful for data points. It doesn't matter anymore whether your ticket has been reissued or not, voluntary or involuntary.

 

[Kangol]

A number of people have PMed me their award record locators and I've been able to pull out a large amount of data on fuel surcharges being levied for tickets issued in Australia. Thank you to those of you who have done so.

This data is now available to everyone in the wiki in this thread (at the top, expand the wiki to view the entire wiki).

When we have enough data points, everyone will be able to calculate their oneworld award fuel surcharges using the list in the wiki to check if they have been overcharged or not.

For those who are still in the planning stages of their oneworld awards, it could be a great planning resource for minimising your fuel surcharges.

I would highly appreciate more data points - the more flights/routes we have data for, the better. If you would like to contribute your itinerary, please PM me your record locator and I will see what I can extract from it.

I'm now accepting any itinerary - a simple one way or return award is just as useful for data points. It doesn't matter anymore whether your ticket has been reissued or not, voluntary or involuntary.

Very thoughtful of you, but isn't this YQ info freely available on matrix.itasoftware.com ?

Just a quick search also shows:
QR SYD/MEL-DOH F/J $287 AUD, but the reverse DOH-SYD/MEL F/J is $171.80 AUD
JL TYO-LAX/SFO/JFK F/J $83.40 AUD (7,000 JPY)
CX HKG-LAX has no YQ or YR in F/J but the reverse LAX-HKG has YR of $31.30 USD

Or are you looking at the PNRs to see if "old" surcharges have not been removed if there have been itinerary (including carrier) changes?

Looks like a rule of thumb is that the cabin type does not change the YQ on the same route.

 

[madrooster]

Very thoughtful of you, but isn't this YQ info freely available on matrix.itasoftware.com ?

Just a quick search also shows:
QR SYD/MEL-DOH F/J $287 AUD, but the reverse DOH-SYD/MEL F/J is $171.80 AUD
JL TYO-LAX/SFO/JFK F/J $83.40 AUD (7,000 JPY)
CX HKG-LAX has no YQ or YR in F/J but the reverse LAX-HKG has YR of $31.30 USD

Or are you looking at the PNRs to see if "old" surcharges have not been removed if there have been itinerary (including carrier) changes?

Looks like a rule of thumb is that the cabin type does not change the YQ on the same route.

The YQ/YR on ITA does not correctly reflect an AU PoS which is what most people on AFF would be given most here would originate their oneworld awards from AU. This is why there's a number of people saying that despite checking their flights on ITA, the fuel surcharges don't match what QF charged them. That's because when you issue a ticket in AU, the AU fuel surcharges apply for the entire ticket.

Award surcharges don't always match commercial fares. In the case of QR, they do match, but that is certainly not the case with all carriers.

ITA says DOH-SYD/MEL in F/J is $171.80 AUD which is actually incorrect for an award issued in AU. $171.80 AUD would apply if the award was issued from a Qatar PoS (and charged in QAR currency). When issued from a AU PoS, it is $287 AUD even for the return leg. For example, a return SYD-DOH-SYD would be $287 x 2 = $574 AUD, issued in AU and charged in AUD.

I can't comment on JL yet, I don't have enough data points.

CX definitely has YR in F/J for HKG-LAX on awards from an AU PoS and it is $31.30 USD. LAX-HKG also has a YR of $31.30 USD. For example if you book SYD-HKG-LAX-HKG-SYD all on CX as an award, from a AU PoS, then you would be charged $31.30 USD x 4 flights = $125.20 USD in YR.

However, if you booked HKG-LAX-HKG on CX as an award from a HK PoS, then you pay zero YR (for both flights).

All the amounts I am compiling are specifically for a AU PoS. It's difficult to get these numbers online, particularly broken down per flight, which is why I'm after real PNRs/tickets to extract the breakdown.

Out of the people who have PMed me so far, I've already found two cases where overcharging has occurred...

 

[Daver6]

question time... T-129 days...

My trip starts with MEL>ADL>DOH and I'm currently booked on QF693 for my MEL>ADL leg which arrives at 18:30. The ADL>DOH flight departs at 22:25 leaving me with a 4 hour stopover. I can see QF701 has availability which comes into ADL at 21:25 giving me a much shorter 1 hour transit time. Any delays out of MEL will probably hurt me as well.

I've never flown international out of ADL and note that they have a small international terminal so have no idea how long it would normally take getting through security and customs for this flight.

Does anyone know what the MCT is and if I should bother going for the shorter transit? Happy to chill and kill time with QF pub but 4 hours is a bit annoying given we will have a 14 hour plane trip ahead of us.

It will be just me and the wife.

Will QF check our bags through or will we need to collect at ADL?

Not sure what the MCT time is, but having taken this flight myself, except coming from PER, the time through customers was very quick. You've already passed through security, so it is only customs. Was very quick.

The Adelaide QP isn't bad and pretty comfy. They seem to bring around special coughtails in the evening too. I'd just stick with the flight you have so you don't need to worry. Maybe plan for a relaxing shower in the lounge and a drink. Save eating for the flight as QR J food is pretty good (assuming you're in J).

 

[Kangol]

The YQ/YR on ITA does not correctly reflect an AU PoS which is what most people on AFF would be given most here would originate their oneworld awards from AU. This is why there's a number of people saying that despite checking their flights on ITA, the fuel surcharges don't match what QF charged them. That's because when you issue a ticket in AU, the AU fuel surcharges apply for the entire ticket.

Award surcharges don't always match commercial fares. In the case of QR, they do match, but that is certainly not the case with all carriers.

ITA says DOH-SYD/MEL in F/J is $171.80 AUD which is actually incorrect for an award issued in AU. $171.80 AUD would apply if the award was issued from a Qatar PoS (and charged in QAR currency). When issued from a AU PoS, it is $287 AUD even for the return leg. For example, a return SYD-DOH-SYD would be $287 x 2 = $574 AUD, issued in AU and charged in AUD.

I can't comment on JL yet, I don't have enough data points.

CX definitely has YR in F/J for HKG-LAX on awards from an AU PoS and it is $31.30 USD. LAX-HKG also has a YR of $31.30 USD. For example if you book SYD-HKG-LAX-HKG-SYD all on CX as an award, from a AU PoS, then you would be charged $31.30 USD x 4 flights = $125.20 USD in YR.

However, if you booked HKG-LAX-HKG on CX as an award from a HK PoS, then you pay zero YR (for both flights).

All the amounts I am compiling are specifically for a AU PoS. It's difficult to get these numbers online, particularly broken down per flight, which is why I'm after real PNRs/tickets to extract the breakdown.

Out of the people who have PMed me so far, I've already found two cases where overcharging has occurred...

Interesting, thanks for letting us know.
Is the amount of overcharging significant (ie not exchange rate variances)? What do you think would be the cause(s) of overcharging would be?

 

[madrooster]

Interesting, thanks for letting us know.
Is the amount of overcharging significant (ie not exchange rate variances)? What do you think would be the cause(s) of overcharging would be?

A few hundred dollars per passenger on average.

There's a number of reasons where taxes can be incorrect. Examples include transits being marked as stopovers for calculation purposes, outright incorrectly charging a tax (ie. when it shouldn't be charged) etc.

 

[yld200]

Thanks Daver6,

I'll leave the flights we'll just have to wait it out in the QP and yes we will be in J

Not sure what the MCT time is, but having taken this flight myself, except coming from PER, the time through customers was very quick. You've already passed through security, so it is only customs. Was very quick.

The Adelaide QP isn't bad and pretty comfy. They seem to bring around special coughtails in the evening too. I'd just stick with the flight you have so you don't need to worry. Maybe plan for a relaxing shower in the lounge and a drink. Save eating for the flight as QR J food is pretty good (assuming you're in J).

 

[flychrisfly]

A number of people have PMed me their award record locators and I've been able to pull out a large amount of data on fuel surcharges being levied for tickets issued in Australia. Thank you to those of you who have done so.

This data is now available to everyone in the wiki in this thread (at the top, expand the wiki to view the entire wiki).

When we have enough data points, everyone will be able to calculate their oneworld award fuel surcharges using the list in the wiki to check if they have been overcharged or not.

Thanks MadRooster, now all you have to do is maintain it. Forever

 

[madrooster]

Thanks MadRooster, now all you have to do is maintain it. Forever

A big update with a lot more routings should go up later today or sometime tomorrow

 

[blu]

For a OW Award that is already booked, can the first sector be cancelled (eg: departing from SYD)? Maybe it can't?

However, if so, would it change the costs - from AUS PoS charges to overseas PoS charges?

 

[Captain Halliday]

For a OW Award that is already booked, can the first sector be cancelled (eg: departing from SYD)? Mabe it can't?

However, if so, would it change the costs - from AUS PoS charges to overseas PoS charges?

It can be changed, but the change fees apply - 5,000pts for J, more in Y.

Starting overseas would likely lower the taxes depending on whether the mix of airlines change, and if fuel prices have changed since the original booking.

As an example, I have an upcoming OW award starting in SIN. As a result of doing this madrooster advised that I saved a significant amount of fuel fines on a QF sector BNE-LAX later in the Award.

On this basis I would say starting OS is likely to lower the cost.

 

[madrooster]

For a OW Award that is already booked, can the first sector be cancelled (eg: departing from SYD)? Mabe it can't?

However, if so, would it change the costs - from AUS PoS charges to overseas PoS charges?

Yes you can cancel it. It would trigger a tax recalculation and it should change to the foreign PoS charges. Change fees would apply.

 

[blu]

Thanks, I'm thinking of adding some more sectors if I can squeeze them into the distance limit and depart from SIN.

 

[PaulST]

Hi all, two questions:
1) if I have to call QF for a WP seat release, will they charge me a booking fee as I'm assuming I'd just book the whole trip while on the phone?
2) anything other than AA Y is impossible to find (I'm thinking Washington DC to LAX), so can you pay to upgrade? I'll be WP when I book the flight, but SG when I fly so will I have access to extra legroom seats?

 

[Captain Halliday]

Hi all, two questions:
1) if I have to call QF for a WP seat release, will they charge me a booking fee as I'm assuming I'd just book the whole trip while on the phone?
2) anything other than AA Y is impossible to find (I'm thinking Washington DC to LAX), so can you pay to upgrade? I'll be WP when I book the flight, but SG when I fly so will I have access to extra legroom seats?

I can't help with 1, sorry. But in relation to 2, I booked an OW award which included AA Y because I couldn't get 3xJ. I'm SG and have been able to preselect Main Cabin Extra. They have slightly more legroom.

 

[Kangol]

Hi all, two questions:
1) if I have to call QF for a WP seat release, will they charge me a booking fee as I'm assuming I'd just book the whole trip while on the phone?
2) anything other than AA Y is impossible to find (I'm thinking Washington DC to LAX), so can you pay to upgrade? I'll be WP when I book the flight, but SG when I fly so will I have access to extra legroom seats?

1) Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. More often they do not charge it, in my experience. Even if they do, it's a very small fee for getting something that otherwise would not have been available.
2) I don't think so. Upgrading awards by way of cash is not permitted, unless you are referring to bribes
Best to book now and select the MCE (main cabin extra), extra legroom seats. In the last few years I have generally only flown AA F on a 2 or 3 class aircraft so I don't have recent first hand experience.

 

[PaulST]

I've put together a rough itinerary for April next year but have been somewhat put off by the $1618 of extra charges.
SYD-HKG-HEL-LHR-IAD- make my own way to LAX since there's no awards - LAX-BNE-SYD

Is $1.6K a bit excessive? I know that flying out of LHR is reasonably pricey but I don't really have any alternatives (I have free accommodation there too so that helps counter the exit fees).

Or is $1618 a normal figure and I should be happy that I'm not paying $10K to fly RTW in J?

(this is my first ever 35K km OW award)

 

[Captain Halliday]

I've put together a rough itinerary for April next year but have been somewhat put off by the $1618 of extra charges.
SYD-HKG-HEL-LHR-IAD- make my own way to LAX since there's no awards - LAX-BNE-SYD

Is $1.6K a bit excessive? I know that flying out of LHR is reasonably pricey but I don't really have any alternatives (I have free accommodation there too so that helps counter the exit fees).

It might be worth considering a cash fare to a destination near LHR. For example, in an upcoming award I have booked a cheapie in Y from LHR-FRA and will continue my award from there. Saved ~$250.

You could also consider starting the award outside AUS. In my case starting in SIN saved me heaps on the BNE-LAX sector.

The airlines you select will also make a difference.

And finally, check the wiki. madrooster has done a great job compiling the taxes for the most frequently travelled sectors and airlines - this might assist.

 

[blu]

Having problem testing an adjusted itinerary (OWA fails on the last sector).
Can't see any rule breaches and CGM mileage shows as 34,066.
Have I missed something or does QF measure differently to GCM (ie: actual air route path)? :

SIN-DOH-MAN
MAN-EDI (land travel sector)
EDI-LHR stop (28hrs)
LHR-ARN stop
ARN-LHR-DUB stop
DUB-LHR-NRT transit (12hr)
NRT-SYD stop
SYD-BNE-NRT transit (but will be stopover in actual itinerary)
NRT-BNE End
BNE-SIN (notional)

 

[Captain Halliday]

Having problem testing an adjusted itinerary (OWA fails on the last sector).
Can't see any rule breaches and CGM mileage shows as 34,066.
Have I missed something or does QF measure differently to GCM (ie: actual air route path)? :

SIN-DOH-MAN
MAN-EDI (land travel sector)
EDI-LHR stop (28hrs)
LHR-ARN stop
ARN-LHR-DUB stop
DUB-LHR-NRT transit (12hr)
NRT-SYD stop
SYD-BNE-NRT transit (but will be stopover in actual itinerary)
NRT-BNE End
BNE-SIN (notional)

Looks like too many stopovers to me. MAN, LHR, ARN, DUB, SYD, NRT = 6