"oneworld" award (132.4K/249.6K/318K/455K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

[Kangol]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Not sure if this has been asked before, but how do the stopover and transfer rules apply to surface segments?

14.5 Classic Flight Rewards - oneworld Classic Flight Reward booking conditions
14.5.1 A oneworld Classic Flight Reward is a Classic Flight Reward Itinerary that includes travel on at least two oneworld Alliance Airlines other than Qantas and does not include any travel on any airline that is not a oneworld Alliance Airline.
14.5.2 Classic Flight Rewards using the oneworld Classic Flight Reward table must be no more than a distance of 56,315 kilometres (35,000 miles). Longer journeys must be broken into separate Itineraries.
14.5.3 A one way oneworld Classic Flight Reward Itinerary will be charged as a return Itinerary. oneworld Classic Flight Reward Itineraries finishing in a port other than the port of origin must include the distance to return directly to the port of origin when calculating the number of Points required to redeem the Flight Reward and the maximum distance for the Itinerary.
14.5.4 The following Stopover conditions apply to oneworld Classic Flight Rewards:
(a) up to five free Stopovers are permitted;
(b) additional Stopovers are not permitted;
(c) only one Stopover is permitted in any one city in the Itinerary; and
(d) only two Transfers may be taken at any one city in the Itinerary.
14.5.5 Surface Segments are permitted as part of oneworld Classic Flight Reward Itineraries, but the distance between the disembarkation point and the next embarkation point will be included in the Reward Point zone calculation for that Itinerary.
14.5.6 Where mixed-class travel is booked in a oneworld Classic Flight Reward, the whole Itinerary will be calculated using the Points level for the highest class booked.

eg. I want to go:
DEN-xLAX-SYD [stop] (AA F, QF F)
SYD-xDFW-xPHX-SAN [stop] (QF F, US F)
SAN-xLAX-MEL [stop] (AA Y, QF F)

Now here is my query. I want to go to SYD straight after arriving into MEL (yes I will need to buy a separate ticket because I can't stop in SYD twice), then a few months later take another F flight to LAX. (QF 11 or 93 doesn't matter).
Is it possible to have a surface segment MEL-SYD, then book:
SYD-LAX [stop]
LAX-DEN?
Or will the fact that I'm departing a surface segment from SYD mean that the stop is not in MEL, but in SYD (breaking the one stopover rule per port)? Can't see anything in the T&Cs about this.

I have two transfers and one stop in LAX which to me sounds legal (going through a port is either a transfer or a stopover and not both).
Total is 34,967 miles too. That way I can make the most of 4x transpac F flights which are normally 144k each (168k for DFW).

Interested if anyone has done something similar regarding surface segments.

 

[vetrade]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Sorry vetrade - yes, both PNR's are QFF award bookings, in J (other than the DBO-SYD) And yes, KTM not KAY, my apologies.

The reason why I'm now going to KTM via DOH is that I had to change this first award booking, taking out DBO-SYD-DXB-DKR-DXB-DOH (qantaslink, QF and Emirates). The lady I spoke to swapped those flights out and added DBO-SYD-MEL-DOH to link up with the rest of the booking as that was the only availability in J according to her. At the time I asked her about cancelling the 2nd PNR and rolling it all into one but she advised there wasn't any availability in J for the HKG-SYD.

I think it's probably easiest to just start a new 280K award booking for my Sept 16 trip. So, any suggestions for the following:
DBO - SYD - DKR stop.
DKR - somewhere where I can fly Easyjet/Ryanair or similar to BIQ stop.
MAD - SYD- DBO stop.

This will make a 280K J award but only 3 stops, so I'm happy to add in a couple more stops to break the long journey to/from DBO, and prefer a route with the least amount of taxes etc. Hope this is clearer, cheers.

LizM, I agree with you that it might be best not to tamper with your first 2 PNRs. At this relatively late stage trying to juggle sectors and find J award seats will probably be too hard a task. Best to focus on getting trip no. 2 sorted as a stand-alone booking.

For future reference, if you did cancel your 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] PNR (HKG – SYD) that award seat would be returned to inventory and therefore be available to book. The problem is that this return to inventory is not immediate (two LAX – MEL J seats I cancelled last year took about 4-5 hrs to show up as available on the QF website) so you can’t cancel and then add the same award seat to your 1[SUP]st[/SUP] itinerary straight away. The risk is that someone else may swoop on that seat and snatch it off you.

Now for your second trip:
DBO – SYD – DKR : do you realise the only OW option to DKR is via MAD so you’d need to plot a course from SYD to Europe first and then fly south from MAD to DKR? (Have you used the oneworld.com interactive planning tool to check for routes between cities/destinations ?)

Then you’d have to fly IB again from DKR back to MAD from where your only OW option would be to get an Air Nostrum flight from MAD to San Sebastian (EAS). It would then be a short land leg to BIQ.

Your obvious problem then would be that you would have 3 transits through MAD (including your return to OZ) which isn’t allowed under the rules unless you turned one of them into a stopover which you could easily do. You could get around this if you flew DKR – MAD and had a “stopover” there i.e. instead of trying to include the Air Nostrum in your OW itinerary you would need to buy a separate paid return fare from MAD – EAS (or BIQ). If you went OW on Air Nostrum your stopover city would be designated as San Sebastian.

 

[LizM]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

LizM, I agree with you that it might be best not to tamper with your first 2 PNRs. At this relatively late stage trying to juggle sectors and find J award seats will probably be too hard a task. Best to focus on getting trip no. 2 sorted as a stand-alone booking.

For future reference, if you did cancel your 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] PNR (HKG – SYD) that award seat would be returned to inventory and therefore be available to book. The problem is that this return to inventory is not immediate (two LAX – MEL J seats I cancelled last year took about 4-5 hrs to show up as available on the QF website) so you can’t cancel and then add the same award seat to your 1[SUP]st[/SUP] itinerary straight away. The risk is that someone else may swoop on that seat and snatch it off you.

Now for your second trip:
DBO – SYD – DKR : do you realise the only OW option to DKR is via MAD so you’d need to plot a course from SYD to Europe first and then fly south from MAD to DKR? (Have you used the oneworld.com interactive planning tool to check for routes between cities/destinations ?)

Then you’d have to fly IB again from DKR back to MAD from where your only OW option would be to get an Air Nostrum flight from MAD to San Sebastian (EAS). It would then be a short land leg to BIQ.

Your obvious problem then would be that you would have 3 transits through MAD (including your return to OZ) which isn’t allowed under the rules unless you turned one of them into a stopover which you could easily do. You could get around this if you flew DKR – MAD and had a “stopover” there i.e. instead of trying to include the Air Nostrum in your OW itinerary you would need to buy a separate paid return fare from MAD – EAS (or BIQ). If you went OW on Air Nostrum your stopover city would be designated as San Sebastian.

I used to head to DKR through DXB vetrade, with Emirates on QF points, but now I want to do a ONeworld Award in J that's not an option anymore. I have also been given incorrect advice in the past from a QF assistant, that all travel had to be in the one class, so am learning a lot here on this forum.

I've played around a bit and can see I can do

DBO-SYD (QantasLink) - HGK- CDG ( CX)- stop.
ORLY- MAD-DKR (Ib)- stop.
DKR - MAD(Ib)- stop.
San sebastian (EAS) isn't searchable on the Qantas website so could I just call QF in regards to this segment after searching on the IB website? Also, if I went DKR-MAD-EAS with the stopover in EAS, that would then mean I'd have 2 transfers through MAD and one stopover (the land section they'd add on from EAS -MAD). Am I on the right track??
Then heading home could be MAD - LHR - HGK - SYD (CX) - DBO (QANTASLINK). Think I should have one stopover left so that could be HGK if need be.

Really grateful for your help evtrade, I never would have found Air Nostrum!!

 

[adelee]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Hi all. Just wanted to share our final, locked in 280k itinerary FOR 2 X pax and one lap infant now that we have booked our last legs for June 2016. While we incurred a few set of change fees building this itinerary, and it differs a bit from the initial plan, I'm pretty happy with the final mix we've achieved (most of the flights we wanted, minimal taxes and the ability to tack on a second trip next June in the Top End, all before my daughter turns 2 on July 2). After 50 plus hours clocked up to the booking process, I'm now finally ready to leave it alone and to focus on the upcoming trip

Something else I wanted to share - we are ending our journey in Adelaide, and I'd assumed that we would be able to do this, as long as we left enough miles for the return trip to Melbourne (the originating city for this booking), without a need to actually book that as a leg. However, the system wouldn't allow us to end in ADL - we had to book the last leg back from ADL-MEL.

Dec 2015 - Jan 2016
((ADL - MEL (separate booking, cost))
MEL-HKG-JFK (CX, STOPOVER)
JFK-MAD-BCN (IB, STOPOVER)
((BCN - FRA (SURFACE SECTOR))
FRA-HKG-AKL (CX, STOPOVER)
AKL-BNE-ADL (QF, STOPOVER)

June 2016
ADL-DRW (STOPOVER)
DRW-ADL-MEL.

Total miles: 34,998
Total combined taxes (2 x adults, 1 lap infant): $1,340.71
Total number of calls to QF call centre: 18
All sectors in J

Thanks to all who provided assistance as I navigated through the research and booking process, the advice has been invaluable!

 

[flychrisfly]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Not sure if this has been asked before, but how do the stopover and transfer rules apply to surface segments?



eg. I want to go:
DEN-xLAX-SYD [stop] (AA F, QF F)
SYD-xDFW-xPHX-SAN [stop] (QF F, US F)
SAN-xLAX-MEL [stop] (AA Y, QF F)

Now here is my query. I want to go to SYD straight after arriving into MEL (yes I will need to buy a separate ticket because I can't stop in SYD twice), then a few months later take another F flight to LAX. (QF 11 or 93 doesn't matter).
Is it possible to have a surface segment MEL-SYD, then book:
SYD-LAX [stop]
LAX-DEN?
Or will the fact that I'm departing a surface segment from SYD mean that the stop is not in MEL, but in SYD (breaking the one stopover rule per port)? Can't see anything in the T&Cs about this.

I have two transfers and one stop in LAX which to me sounds legal (going through a port is either a transfer or a stopover and not both).
Total is 34,967 miles too. That way I can make the most of 4x transpac F flights which are normally 144k each (168k for DFW).

Interested if anyone has done something similar regarding surface segments.

Pretty sure what you want to do all okay. The stopping city is the one that counts as the stopover. Good luck getting all those transpacs in F!

 

[Kangol]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Pretty sure what you want to do all okay. The stopping city is the one that counts as the stopover. Good luck getting all those transpacs in F!

Awesome, thanks. Good to know the arrival city is the stopover. Yeah getting the F seats released is what I'm planning - one of the most valuable benefits of WP..

 

[vetrade]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Total miles: 34,998

That must be some kind of record to get to within only 2 miles of the total distance allowed. Well done!

 

[adelee]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

That must be some kind of record to get to within only 2 miles of the total distance allowed. Well done!

Thanks vetrade. The QF call centre operator was quite amused. DRW was literally the only suitable northern Australian destination we could get to within the mileage we had, when factoring in the requirement for the last leg back to MEL. Ideally, with a lap infant, we would have preferred to cut the mileage down by initially heading to JFK via DFW, and back to ADL from AKL via SYD, however after months of daily checking for new award availability to check up, I'm calling it a day and locking in. Should be an amazing trip!

 

[vetrade]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

DBO-SYD (QantasLink) - HGK- CDG ( CX)- stop.
ORLY- MAD-DKR (Ib)- stop.
DKR - MAD(Ib)- stop.
San sebastian (EAS) isn't searchable on the Qantas website so could I just call QF in regards to this segment after searching on the IB website? Also, if I went DKR-MAD-EAS with the stopover in EAS, that would then mean I'd have 2 transfers through MAD and one stopover (the land section they'd add on from EAS -MAD). Am I on the right track??
Then heading home could be MAD - LHR - HGK - SYD (CX) - DBO (QANTASLINK). Think I should have one stopover left so that could be HGK if need be.

Really grateful for your help evtrade, I never would have found Air Nostrum!!

Air Nostrum is a OW affiliate but I don't have any personal experience I can relate to you regarding award seats, LizM. They are a subsidiary of IB though (which I have flown quite a few times). My experience has been that getting award J seats on IB is a lot easier than other OW airlines (notably AA and BA across the Atlantic), so maybe (hopefully) Air Nostrum is similar. To check for availability I reckon the best option might be to join "Iberia Plus" online so that you can search for award seats to EAS using Avios points/miles. BA uses Avios too but I don't know if you can search for Air Nostrum awards if you signed up for their Executive Club, but that may be another option. Like you mentioned, I guess you could always ring QF first and ask them if they can "see" Air Nostrum awards on their system since their website doesn't show them.

The rest of your latest itinerary looks "do-able" to me so even if it did eventuate that you had to buy a return ticket from MAD to EAS or BIQ it's only a short trip (short enough to fly Y) so shouldn't be too expensive. Maybe there's a train option too - would probably be a cheap and picturesque option - and probably no more time consuming by the time you consider airport time.

 

[Jordan613]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Total miles: 34,998

Very impressive! Well done

 

[madrooster]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Total miles: 34,998
Total combined taxes (2 x adults, 1 lap infant): $1,340.71
Total number of calls to QF call centre: 18
All sectors in J

I'd be surprised if 34998 made the cut when Amadeus calculates the ticketed mileage... milecalc.com says it's 34698?

 

[adelee]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

I'd be surprised if 34998 made the cut when Amadeus calculates the ticketed mileage... milecalc.com says it's 34698?

I use mile calc to come up with my figure. However just noticed it has 34698 in brackets next to 34998. Is it then actually the figure in brackets that is correct?

Mileage Summary
Flight Miles	34998 (34698)	69996 (69396)
Booking Class Bonus
Elite Status Bonus
Promotion Bonus
Credit Card Miles
Trip Total	34998	69996
Cents per Mile (cpm)

 

[madrooster]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

I use mile calc to come up with my figure. However just noticed it has 34698 in brackets next to 34998. Is it then actually the figure in brackets that is correct?

Mileage Summary
Flight Miles	34998 (34698)	69996 (69396)
Booking Class Bonus
Elite Status Bonus
Promotion Bonus
Credit Card Miles
Trip Total	34998	69996
Cents per Mile (cpm)

milecalc.com defaults to a minimum 500 miles earned per sector (as that's what say earning to AA would be). If you look at the breakdown of each segment you'll find the shorter sectors are less than 500 miles but are being counted as 500 towards your total.

 

[ellen10]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Hi all. Just wanted to share our final, locked in 280k itinerary FOR 2 X pax and one lap infant now that we have booked our last legs for June 2016. While we incurred a few set of change fees building this itinerary, and it differs a bit from the initial plan, I'm pretty happy with the final mix we've achieved (most of the flights we wanted, minimal taxes and the ability to tack on a second trip next June in the Top End, all before my daughter turns 2 on July 2). After 50 plus hours clocked up to the booking process, I'm now finally ready to leave it alone and to focus on the upcoming trip

Total miles: 34,998
Total combined taxes (2 x adults, 1 lap infant): $1,340.71
Total number of calls to QF call centre: 18
All sectors in J

Well done adelee!!

 

[coles525]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Just wondering if my future OW Business class seems achievable as is, or if any changes should happen (ie: ditch a segment, or go in through a different country).

QFF website is telling me I'm 1 segment over my limit. Sorry for not knowing all the airport codes.

1: MEL - Honolulu
2: Honolulu - LAX
3: LAX - Chicago
4: Chicago - Ottawa, Canada
5: Canada - Miami
6: Miami - Reykjavik
7: Reykjavik - Dublin
8: Dublin - London
9: LHR - Oslo
10: Oslo - Stockholm
11: Stockholm - Delhi
12: Delhi - Kathmandu
13: Kathmandu - Shanghai
14: Shanghai - Seoul
15: Seoul - Tokyo
16: Tokyo - Home (Syd, Bri, Mel: easiest available)

Some if not most flights have connections, what could be the best choices (surface sector, Change a sector to a country not listed?

Sorry if this has double posted, (using tapatalk) previous attempt said I wasnt logged in, not permitted; so had to re type everything (not exactly!).

We already have enough points for 2 people (560k), with another 100k transferring over rhe next few months.

PS: new android app is really annoying me now! When error fixing, "blue arrow" goes anywhere. No curser to even show me where I'm actually typing my words even...

 

[madrooster]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

1: MEL - Honolulu
2: Honolulu - LAX
3: LAX - Chicago
4: Chicago - Ottawa, Canada
5: Canada - Miami
6: Miami - Reykjavik
7: Reykjavik - Dublin
8: Dublin - London
9: LHR - Oslo
10: Oslo - Stockholm
11: Stockholm - Delhi
12: Delhi - Kathmandu
13: Kathmandu - Shanghai
14: Shanghai - Seoul
15: Seoul - Tokyo
16: Tokyo - Home (Syd, Bri, Mel: easiest available)

You're well over your sector count. You are also only permitted to have 5 stops. The minimum sectors to achieve what you are looking for:

1: MEL - Honolulu - 2 sectors (need to route via SYD)
2: Honolulu - LAX - 1 sector
3: LAX - Chicago - 1 sector
4: Chicago - Ottawa, Canada - 2 sectors (need to route via PHL)
5: Canada - Miami - 1 sector, possible 2
6: Miami - Reykjavik - 2 sectors
7: Reykjavik - Dublin - 2 sectors
8: Dublin - London - 1 sector
9: LHR - Oslo - 1 sector
10: Oslo - Stockholm - 2 sectors
11: Stockholm - Delhi - 2 sectors
12: Delhi - Kathmandu - 2 sectors
13: Kathmandu - Shanghai - 2 sectors
14: Shanghai - Seoul - 2 sectors
15: Seoul - Tokyo - 1 sector
16: Tokyo - Home (Syd, Bri, Mel: easiest available) - 2 sectors

Total of 26 sectors at least.

 

[vetrade]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Coles525, your plans miss the mark on nearly every level for OW award bookings so it's apparent that you need to start from scratch and familiarise yourself with the basic T&Cs for OW awards and at least the most recent 10-20 pages of this thread. The awards T&Cs are section 14 of the T&Cs on QF's website.

The basics are:
No more than 16 sectors (individual flights)
No more than 2 transits through any one city
No more than 5 stopovers (stays of more than 24 hrs)
No more than 35,000 miles travelled in total (including "point to point" land legs)

First up, you should forget about HNL - if you can get award seats into or out of there (on any airline) you will be doing better than everyone else on AFF.........they are as "rare as hens teeth".

 

[coles525]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

Glad nothings planned till lave next year. Will read up on section 14 T&C.

Thanks for all the info

 

[adelee]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

milecalc.com defaults to a minimum 500 miles earned per sector (as that's what say earning to AA would be). If you look at the breakdown of each segment you'll find the shorter sectors are less than 500 miles but are being counted as 500 towards your total.

On, the irony! Thanks for confirming. Should have queried this with the forum awhile back.

 

[Inuniform]

re: "oneworld" award (140K/280K/420K) Planning - The Definitive Thread

I am accumulating points for two ATW tickets in J and am getting to the stage where I am starting to think about strategising a booking. One question that I can't seem to find the answer to is, how can I book an ATW ticket a year out when all of the legs of that trip won't be released at the same time? It seems that if I booked each leg as it became available it would be at a far greater cost. Alternatively, if I tried to book each leg of the ATW ticket at the same time I there would be a lack of availability. I'm hope there's an easy answer, but if there is I can't seem to find it.

Thanks in advance.