New VA Fare Structure

[Mr Pumblechook]

And there's one of the biggest issues for me at least.

If I'm sinking 5 figures into an airline annually, it stings to be told I have to pay a fee to select a seat (and at the same time see my FF earn halved and my baggage allowance drop 33%) unless they're offering me big discounts on my current spend; there's no sign of that happening yet.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

I need to get smarter and book JQ or TT in advance and forego the FF points. Still get lounge access with either LCC carrier courtesy of QF/VA status.

Unless things have changed, you won't get VA lounge access on TT.

 

[Rotation]

Given there are 23 pages of comments - I'm going to assume someone's probably already made this comment, but the line about "oh but you can choose your seat for no fee within 48 hours" like that's something special.

You can check in 48 hours ahead, that's why you can pick your seat without paying for it, it's effectively part of the check in process.

I know it kind of seems fickle... But I am genuinely annoyed at the fare structure changes, the bonus changes, the seat selection fees. VA is not making it easy to love them.

 

[OzEire]

Those fare bucket labels sound like a Lenny Kravitz song "Elevate, Go, Getaway !!"

I agree with the earlier poster who suggested this might be VA's "Simpler and Fairer".

But how will AFF refer to this particular "enhancement" to differentiate it from so many others?

 

[Mattg]

I agree with the earlier poster who suggested this might be VA's "Simpler and Fairer".

But how will AFF refer to this particular "enhancement" to differentiate it from so many others?

Good question.

Restructuring, perhaps?

 

[Mr Pumblechook]

'The Great Purge of 2016'? ☺

 

[trippin_the_rift]

Given there are 23 pages of comments - I'm going to assume someone's probably already made this comment, but the line about "oh but you can choose your seat for no fee within 48 hours" like that's something special.

You can check in 48 hours ahead, that's why you can pick your seat without paying for it, it's effectively part of the check in process.

If I were a domestic flyer this would make me switch to Qantas, Jetstar, Tiger or forget about loyalty programs all together. When the top customers can't even get benefits then what hope do silver and golds EVER have?

48 hours prior to departure is pointless because you have everyone with status doing the same thing (selecting seats) and it becomes a land rush to secure Row 3. VA says "rows 3-6 for platinums" WTF? Anyone who does any serious flying knows the best economy seat is *NOT* at the front, but is the one where nobody is next to you regardless of where on the aircraft it is. Only rookies fall for the front of the aircraft (excluding row 3) spin.

Penny pinching from status pax is a spit in the face to my loyalty.

Look, none of us have insight to the data which hopefully was driving these changes.
On the surface these changes feel like revenue management/oldskool airline people calling the shots. It would have worked brilliantly 20 years ago.

I don't see any penny pinching at all, but rather are massive failure to identify what customers really want - and how to translate these wants into products which drive new revenue. After-all, Virgin Australia needs revenue... It's one of the least profitable airlines in the country (just about every other major airline flying is running 9 and 10 figure profits) and in recent years - the least innovative.

So, instead of driving the Velocity Platinum benefits into the ground for virtually no revenue benefit, how about adding new benefits which cost nothing but have high perceived value to passengers. Heck - do the deals right and they can be exclusive - thus locking Qantas out from the ability to copy them which is the only argument against adding benefits.

Virgin has effectively broken the #1 rule of business product pricing. People will always pay more for value.
When you strip away the value, the product is commodizied and loyalty program attractiveness falls away.

:broken heart emoji:

 

[mattyj89]

My 5c into it; I'm a self funded Gold Velocity member (celebrating my third year of Gold membership in June just gone), travelling on average a return somewhere every fortnight or so, lets just say 50 sectors a year. Typically Sydney-Melbourne-Sydney; staying with my family in regional Victoria, catching the train to and from their place. Other times to the Gold Coast, Brisbane or Adelaide.

I generally book the last flight out of Melbourne back to Sydney (VA897 at 2100); and I aim to get to Southern Cross station by 1900 at the latest to get to the airport in theory by 1945, once transitioning from the platform to the Skybus. Some times, much earlier, where fly ahead is awesome.

On a typical weekend, all things going well, I'm usually in the lounge by 1930 and eligible to fly ahead on a 2000, 2015 or 2030 flight; I've even taken the 2045 flight at times. Yes, its only a 15 minute fly ahead, but any flight that gets me back home earlier is a good flight!

As a self funded flyer, I generally always book the cheapest option, and was annoyed last? year/2014? when they added complimentary baggage to all Y fares, essentially reducing the Gold benefit (and costing an average of $10 or so per flight extra). I travel lightly with a backpack, so this was a pain.

But to take away seat selection and fly ahead, well. Depending on the difference between the cheapest and the next fare bracket, I may be better off just dropping down to Silver and paying for lounge membership. Fly ahead is definitely my favourite and most used benefit, but if its going to cost me excessively to keep it, and even then, be subject to a potential change fee (it's been stated fees may apply), it's just not worth it for me. Seat selection comes a close second, and yes, whilst I don't usually benefit from the platinum row 3, I usually sit somewhere in rows 4-7 when checking in at T-48.

I don't need a flexible flight, my plans are generally locked in (and over 300 sectors, haven't missed a flight yet), and use fly ahead as my 'flex' tool.

As others have said here, there really isn't all that much difference between the VA and JQ product any more, yet JQ is generally much cheaper. Add in price beating Tiger fares, I've scored quite a number of $50 or so JQ flights, with no CC fee (that's part of their price beat promo). I may need to start re-considering my loyalties.

I shall await September 7 and re-assess.

 

[medhead]

I had 2 VA flights recently, including this week. Was easily able to get an exit row with no one next to me when I got to the airport at T-1.2

One of the regulars on the early morning VA flight always goes for row 4 and just about always gets an empty middle seat. Row3, when I could get it, not so much.

 

[pauly7]

Wow what a thread. My gut feel is that VA will pull back on some of these proposed changes before the 'official announcement'.
What is clear as day is that they are absolutely desperate for cash, their owners must have their feet on VA's throat for it to even consider such a ill thought out strategy.

 

[anat0l]

I guess one thing is that we should wait until this current wave of changes - new fee structure and credit card charging - comes in before anyone decides to act.

There are still quite some details that that clue card doesn't give away precisely, including some of the processes and so on.

Finally, as it can happen, a bad change on the surface may manifest itself as either not really an issue at all or with minimal loss, viz. people just take it and move on nearly without impact.

Wow what a thread. My gut feel is that VA will pull back on some of these proposed changes before the 'official announcement'.
What is clear as day is that they are absolutely desperate for cash, their owners must have their feet on VA's throat for it to stimulate such a ill thought out strategy.

I asked a few people whether they think that VA would backpedal on these changes. They said they wouldn't put money on it. One thing we could agree on is that the chances of them backpedalling would be greater than that of Qantas.

If they are desperate for cash, they certainly are doing an award winning job at hiding it "on face"!

 

[esseeeayeenn]

I can't help but wonder if part of the problem is the corporate veil between Virgin and Velocity.

 

[Pleb Status]

* Elevate fares will have no change fee for changes 30 days prior to departure and $50 fee after that to up to departure (down from the current $80 change fee)
* Cancellation of Elevate fares will be to Travel Bank only (no refund to original payment method) with $50 fee, and can be up until departure time (removing the previous restriction of mid-night the day before flight... apparently that was a restriction..?)
* No fee for cancellation to Travel Bank of Freedom fares. Cancellation of Freedom fare after No Show has to be within 90 days of departure date to receive 75% of value of the fare.
* Couldn't provide an indication if Freedom L fares would be at the same/similar price point to current Flexi L fares (as an example)
* Couldn't yet provide the cost of Space+ seat selection for each fare class
* However, the biggest I am interested in is that Row 3 on B737 and E190 would not be classed as Space+ and Platinums will still be able to select without a fee on Elevate and Freedom fares at time of booking. The agent had to clarify this one with multiple departments and the message at the moment was that this was still being looked at overall but everything points toward the current Platinum benefit would remain. The agent mentioned that Space+ appeared to be the Exit Row seats only, as is the current arrangement for charging more for Exit row seats.
* Seat selections on bookings made prior to 7 Sept for flights after this date should hold.
* Changes for VA's Booking fees will be announced in the next fortnight (have to be in place before 1st September).

If the information provided above is correct, there is actually some good news coming if you do not book into the cheapest fare class. The free change more than 30 days out on what are essentially higher level Saver fares now would be a nice enhancement (and $50 otherwise).

The seat selection fee for row 3 is now the big unanswered question when booked into the cheapest fare class. If row 3 is not considered Space+, hopefully the fee should be in the single digits.

One thing that has not received much comment is the indication that UpgradeMe bids will also vary somehow by fare group. Does this mean the higher the fare class the lower the minimum bid required (from the current baseline) or will the minimum bid on the Getaway class fares be alot higher than the current minimum bid. My UpgradeMe bid was accepted this afternoon at the minimum for BNE-PER on Sunday and this would hurt more than the other changes if the minimum was increased on the cheaper fares (it has been months since I have had to do an A330 trip in Y ) .

 

[Deleted member 29185]

a bad change on the surface may manifest itself as either not really an issue at all or with minimal loss, viz. people just take it and move on nearly without impact.

I'd be expecting that in the short term. VA has a history of introducing change and then starting with minimal impact but surreptitiously sticking it into us when they think we don't notice. They did the same thing with the game change plan.....introduce a lot of fun new stuff to make people go wow and with minimal fare increases but for years later they slide in $5-$10 increases on regular occasions with no mention of it at all and suddenly we're paying QF fares for JQ service. I expect them to do the same thing this time, except they don't even have anything to make people say wow, over (well not in a positive way)!

One thing that has not received much comment is the indication that UpgradeMe bids will also vary somehow by fare group. Does this mean the higher the fare class the lower the minimum bid required (from the current baseline) or will the minimum bid on the Getaway class fares be alot higher than the current minimum bid.

Like all the fares and fees.....no one will currently know the answer to your question about costs.....at least no one who is prepared to tell us right now. For your first question, UpgradeMe bids have always varied dependent upon original fare class purchased (AFAIK). A recent example I had was for two successful minimum bids for CNS-BNE. $155 from a flexi fare and $180 from a saver fare. The saver fare was obviously dearer, but when the original fare was added to the upgrade bid, the saver was by far the better proposition (ignoring the 15 extra SCs, points and flexibility).

 

[vmile]

The seat selection fee for row 3 is now the big unanswered question when booked into the cheapest fare class. If row 3 is not considered Space+, hopefully the fee should be in the single digits.

As I understand it currently, Row 3 can only be seen by Plats in the seat selection charts, hence only Plats can select seats there. (currently with no fee).

If it becomes Space+, then anyone can see it on the seat selection chart,whenever, and take it if they wish to pay the fee.

They are the Y seats I would want, so I assume they will go first.

So Row 3 for Plats will become academic, they will be gone to anyone who wants to pay.

 

[Pleb Status]

As I understand it currently, Row 3 can only be seen by Plats in the seat selection charts, hence only Plats can select seats there. (currently with no fee).

If it becomes Space+, then anyone can see it on the seat selection chart,whenever, and take it if they wish to pay the fee.

They are the Y seats I would want, so I assume they will go first.

So Row 3 for Plats will become academic, they will be gone to anyone who wants to pay.

As it appears likely that row 3 will not be Space+, it should therefore still be reserved for WP only and the only change will be those WP in the cheapest fare class will have to pay for preselection.

To my knowledge, there has been no indication at all from VA that supports the theory that row 3 will be Space+. The advice given to kervosmith is better than any of the unsubstantiated rumours here (although not the most reassuring advice unfortunately).

 

[BAM1748]

And there's one of the biggest issues for me at least.

If I'm sinking 5 figures into an airline annually, it stings to be told I have to pay a fee to select a seat (and at the same time see my FF earn halved and my baggage allowance drop 33%) unless they're offering me big discounts on my current spend; there's no sign of that happening yet.

Hi, please don't take this the wrong way, but I know people including my boss who sinks "5 figures" into a single trip or even flight. I would suggest your 5 figures aren't going to concern Virgin overall and in the end there will only be one way to get some satisfaction.

Matt

 

[Pleb Status]

For my interest, where have VA specifically stated to date that the baggage allowance for status members is being reduced? Or this another 'interpretation' of the changes by the more highly excited members of the group?

The new clue card allowances for Y and J (domestic at least) appear to be no different to the current allowances for non status members. There is no mention that the existing status baggage allowances will be reduced from my quick review.

 

[BAM1748]

I'm loving this, I don't fly Virgin but if I do need to it would seem I get the same benefits as many of you status guys, and I can even gazump someone on a seat by paying 20 bucks. Love it.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

As it appears likely that row 3 will not be Space+, it should therefore still be reserved for WP only and the only change will be those WP in the cheapest fare class will have to pay for preselection.

To my knowledge, there has been no indication at all from VA that supports the theory that row 3 will be Space+. The advice given to kervosmith is better than any of the unsubstantiated rumours here (although not the most reassuring advice unfortunately).

If VA's WP & SG pax will be given forward seats anyway free of charge why not just let those pax select the seats themselves?

Saves the airline having to do both the initial allocating of the seats & the rearranging at checkin or in the lounge.

People need the ability to self manage their own bookings in order to seat themselves with family and friends booked separately. I don't understand why any airline would want to hinder this process when it should be encouraged.