New Sydney Airport Vision

[harvyk]

It was post security and before shopping/lounges/gates. There are no departure cards - but equally I have never filled in an inbound arrivals card entering the UK. I think foreigners (including non-EU citizens) do though. It was "immigration" person rather than an airline person.

Where you then allowed to "mix" with DOM Pax or did you then have to wait in a dedicated international section?

 

[simongr]

I have flown a few times from LHR T5 and that was a mixed area DOM and INTL. At T5 the passport "look" was before security.

 

[anat0l]

One downside, is that the current Qantas domestic terminal is probably the best of the three, and if Mac takes that over it may all become the same style of shopping plaza we have come to enjoy elsewhere in Sydney Aiport.

A good note, although is this a dig at the style of T1 or do you mean how there are so many shops (and how the Duty Free has been "strategically" placed at T1) and it doesn't blend nicely?

The "shopping centre" look is hard to get away from. There are really two (or really one-and-a-half) approaches. One is you have the "shopping mall" and then a "dead zone" edge, i.e. gate areas. This is similar to LHR T3, BKK, KUL and KIX. Another is that you have the huge shopping mall and gates that stick out from it. SYD T1 is kind of like this for most areas, as are places like DXB and SIN.

What annoys everyone to bits are, of course, how Duty Free neatly is placed after immigration and, in the case of the "*A pier", also smack in the middle of the concourse. They don't make it a straight beeline path either - oh no, they put all the twists and turns into it. Even if QF retain ownership of T3 (and the odds of this are probably at best even money), if they have to convert it (or T2 for that matter) into an international airport, then I think we'll see the same thing with the duty free happen as it has with the other two major Australian international gateways, and always will. Who knows - they will probably find more "novel" (read "insidious") ways to set it up. And unfortunately business and marketing theory has shown that the set up is extremely effective in improving duty free sales (more time in the shop = more chances to buy, an inevitable conclusion; and those annoyed at the idea, well, can please themselves). This factor alone is probably what stops QF from actually making some sort of exclusive beeline lane that cuts through to the lounge (don't we all miss the timber staircase), e.g. straight from check-in to immigration (dedicated) to security (dedicated) to lounge, i.e. because (a) SACL/MAP and the duty free sales won't allow them to do that (miss out on customers), and (b) even if it were to happen at T3, the duty free sales outlet will complain that they are helping move potential customers away and will either launch a legal challenge or demand a premium per passenger due to lost sales.

So, the duty free shop after security is probably here to stay, irrespective of which terminal you travel through for your international flight. LHR T3 is just like this (and geez what a mess in traffic flow it causes).

 

[anat0l]

I have flown a few times from LHR T5 and that was a mixed area DOM and INTL. At T5 the passport "look" was before security.

The "look" must be before security from what I can tell. At LHR T3 this is how it is done. (And yes I made a mistake earlier saying there is no outbound immigration from LON).

If you are transferring to a flight at T5, the same check is done on the floor below the gates before you take the stairs up to the common security area.

 

[Noob]

Let's wait and see what happens then. It is going to be a huge amount of disruption if they go ahead with this. From a branding perspective it would seem that DJ/VA will be located with the LCCs (Scoot) - I wonder if that will maintain something of the LCC feel travelling DJ/VA (cf to MEL which feels very much like an LCC terminal compared to QF departures).

Sorry I just realised, what's the difference between Scoot operating out of the Virgin terminal and Jetstar operating out of the Qantas terminal??

 

[anat0l]

Let's wait and see what happens then. It is going to be a huge amount of disruption if they go ahead with this. From a branding perspective it would seem that DJ/VA will be located with the LCCs (Scoot) - I wonder if that will maintain something of the LCC feel travelling DJ/VA (cf to MEL which feels very much like an LCC terminal compared to QF departures).

I think it's easier just to think of it as "QF/JQ/oneworld" and "the rest".

Think of it like the QF/JQ/oneworld terminals as being BA's T5 + the oneworld part of T3, and the rest being everything else at LHR (with a particularly big contingent by VS at T3). Having said that, let's hope for no baggage system stuff ups on day 1 of the new terminals!

Another example is FRA and MUC. One terminal is LH (and sometimes their integrated partners and / or Star Alliance), and another terminal is the rest.

DJ/VA, being with "the rest", will probably have a good opportunity to flesh out it's own territory in the new terminal(s), again similar to what VS have done at T3 (and to some degree what VA have done at T2).

It'll be a shame when QF gives up its nice high positioned F Lounge at T1. No chance they will transplant it to QF's new home, and I foresee a less than even money chance of reproducing a similarly proud lounge at the new terminal, too. (Refitting the current lounge space at T3 won't be the same, even with the superior view from the T3 QP).

 

[wilco]

I have to admit, I also thought that UK didn't have outbound immigration, in any case Schengen would have no bearing as to if they had outbound immi as it's an agreement to allow entry into certain countries either under the one visa or without any visa \ border controls. It does not play a part in departure procedures of a non signatory country. (Prehaps someone who has departed the UK recently could comment)

Another example I can think of is LAX, it has INT and DOM departing from the same terminal, but again they have no outbound immi. You show your passport at the gate as you board. But again security procedures are the same regardless of INT or DOM.

Schengen has every bearing on immigration. Period.
If you are arriving from or departing to a non Schengen signatory country, you are processed in both directions. If you are arriving from or departing to a Schengen signatory country from another Schengen signatory country then you are not processed as you are already within the Schengen region already, which by definition, has no "immigration" borders.

The UK and IR are not signatories, so you get processed in both direction regardless of your citizenship. Inbound, non EU citizens need to fill out the necessary form. Outbound, there are no forms but your departure is recorded with the Home Office when your flight departs with you on it. The US (not just LAX) has exactly the same type of outbound processing. Australia on the other hand retains its antiquated form based processing of departing passengers.

Many moons ago I flew ADL to DRW on QF 81 (continued onto SIN) as a domestic passenger and despite having the big orange D sticker on my BP, when i presented my UK passport as ID, little did I know, I was processed out of the country. On arrival into DRW, I was questioned for over an hour as to why I didn't fill out a departure card and I told them it was because I wasn't departing. I still dont understand exactly what happened that day.....

(And yes I made a mistake earlier saying there is no outbound immigration from LON).

Nothing wrong with making a mistake, but it just highlights how adamant we can all be that we are right, until we get proven wrong. At least you had the decency to admit it, unlike some others.

 

[simongr]

Sorry I just realised, what's the difference between Scoot operating out of the Virgin terminal and Jetstar operating out of the Qantas terminal??

Dunno. My feeling flying ex-MEL was that the DJ/VA terminal was a coughhole LCC terminal and that the DJ/VA premium experience was tainted by that.

 

[medhead]

Schengen has every bearing on immigration. Period.
If you are arriving from or departing to a non Schengen signatory country, you are processed in both directions. If you are arriving from or departing to a Schengen signatory country from another Schengen signatory country then you are not processed as you are already within the Schengen region already, which by definition, has no "immigration" borders.

Surely what you've just outlined is only relevant to arriving or departing from a Schengen zone country. As the UK isn't one of those countries it has no bearing on departing or arriving from/to the UK. The UK has no obligation under the Schengen treaty and hence apply their own laws.


Sent from my iPhone using Aust Freq Fly app so please excuse the lack of links.

 

[JohnK]

Not likely too see this "vision" happen in 8 years time, if at all. I actually like the current setup although the car park and arrivals pickup is a little confusing.

And I am hoping sanity prevails and the curfew remains in place. Why people want to land and depart in the middle of the night is beyond my understanding?

It's not too bad for those travelling Qantas, but try checking in at the *A counters for pier C, then taking the enforced 600 metre walk to the lounge. (This used to be ¼ the distance).

To the *Alliance lounge? Isn't the Qantas First Class Lounge around 400-500 metres anyway? I don't really mind the walk.

 

[anat0l]

And I am hoping sanity prevails and the curfew remains in place. Why people want to land and depart in the middle of the night is beyond my understanding?

The main problems I have with the SYD curfew are not really the fact that it doesn't allow flights to be scheduled in the middle of the night. More what it does to forcing scheduling of flights during the day, plus the massive inability and inflexibility of SYD to sort itself out due to (more specifically, minor) irrops.

To the *Alliance lounge? Isn't the Qantas First Class Lounge around 400-500 metres anyway? I don't really mind the walk.

That's the argument. The Qantas lounges are very near the immigration point, whereas the Star Alliance lounges (i.e. SQ, NZ) are located on the far pier, requiring a much longer walk. Some time before, there were two immigration entrances, so this was not really a "problem". I don't mind the walk either per se but proximity is a kind of marketing / attraction factor these days.

 

[dajop]

Why people want to land and depart in the middle of the night is beyond my understanding?

To answer your question (and not argue the merits or otherwise of SYD's curfew), if you look at the period after SYD curfew kicks in, from 23:10 to 01:05 there around 8 or 9 flights that depart MEL during this time, so there must be some demand. But why do people want to do this? A few reasons, some airlines provide connections from these that arrive in Europe mid-late afternoon - which can be more bearable than arriving at 6am and having to stay up all day. Others provide connections to places like India and China (and other parts of Asia) that may instead waste a whole day of travelling, or necessitate an overnight stay at a hub. Personally, even back to SIN I don't mind the late nights, as you can have a full day and evening in MEL - as opposed to leaving for the airport at 3pm.

 

[JohnK]

To answer your question (and not argue the merits or otherwise of SYD's curfew), if you look at the period after SYD curfew kicks in, from 23:10 to 01:05 there around 8 or 9 flights that depart MEL during this time, so there must be some demand. But why do people want to do this?

Fair enough, sounds like a reasonable idea.

But then there will be other people who want to arrive at 3:00am-4:00am to have plenty of time to make connections, trains, buses etc and before you know it the airport is operating 24 hours a day.