Near miss between two QF aircraft @ SYD

[markis10]

https://www.atsb.gov.au/investigations/ao-2026-086

Landing 737 missed a Dash 8 that was erroneously given a clearance to cross the runway by the surface movement controller

 

[Sprucegoose]

when is it considered a near miss?

 

[markis10]

when is it considered a near miss?

It’s a good question but generally a near miss is when there has been a breakdown in applicable separation standards. In this case having two aircraft on the runway at the same time.

In the procedural control world you could have a near miss when in reality the aircraft were no where near each other, as a 15 degree tolerance was applied either side of the aircraft’s track and the assumption made the aircraft was somewhere in that tolerance. Fortunately that’s very rare to be in use these days as more accurate systems are in play.

Worlds worst disaster involved two aircraft on the same runway - Tenerife.

 

[Saab34]

Will be interesting to see rostering for the shift, Sydney ATC has been in the news in recent years for pretty tight staffing.

 

[Sprucegoose]

Will be interesting to see rostering for the shift, Sydney ATC has been in the news in recent years for pretty tight staffing.

They have and caused some regular delays as a result.

 

[flydoc2]

https://www.atsb.gov.au/investigations/ao-2026-086

Landing 737 missed a Dash 8 that was erroneously given a clearance to cross the runway by the surface movement controller

Occurrence 0814 AEST 27/7/26.
According to the report summary the conflict actually developed when the 737 on RWY 25 was cleared to cross 34L while the DHC-8 was in the landing roll on 34L, with the 737 stopping after the holding point

 

[esseeeayeenn]

Will be interesting to see rostering for the shift, Sydney ATC has been in the news in recent years for pretty tight staffing.

At least SYD still has staff. Most AU airports have no ATC staff physically present now.

 

[flydoc2]

At least SYD still has staff. Most AU airports have no ATC staff physically present now.

An overly simplistic generalisation which fundamentally doesn’t distinguish between actual requirement for ATC services based on airport activity and associated risk etc. For this reason ‘most’ AU airports never have had or will have ATC staff on site

Acknowledging ATC staffing in some areas is yet to return to the levels that existed prior to the COVID-related redundancies, I’m not aware of CASA withdrawing tower or ground controller services from an AU airport in recent years; @markis10 would be better placed to comment.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

At least SYD still has staff. Most AU airports have no ATC staff physically present now.

Aside from WSI all the big capital city airports have staffed control towers in person with WSI in person but from a remote location looking at cameras

 

[markis10]

At least SYD still has staff. Most AU airports have no ATC staff physically present now.

Totally incorrect, if it has a tower it has staff be it Bankstown, Perth or whatever. The only exception to this rule is Gove Gove Tower May 2008

An overly simplistic generalisation which fundamentally doesn’t distinguish between actual requirement for ATC services based on airport activity and associated risk etc. For this reason ‘most’ AU airports never have had or will have ATC staff on site

Acknowledging ATC staffing in some areas is yet to return to the levels that existed prior to the COVID-related redundancies, I’m not aware of CASA withdrawing tower or ground controller services from an AU airport in recent years; @markis10 would be better placed to comment.

In fact services have been added with Ballina going onto controlled airspace schema with a mobile tower July 6. Sydney used to have a lot more staff as they had their own area approach control centre (radar room) which was my first placement after training, however this became redundant with Brisbane/Melbourne commissioning new systems (TAATS or often called TARTS) and the resultant airspace redesign.

Around this time was the biggest reduction in staff in the form of the abolition of flight services, led by an airspace reorganisation under the watch of Dick Smith. With the exception of airport briefing offices most of these reductions were off airport.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

I am neither an insider nor an expert and I am very open to correction on the details however I was referring to both past plans:

https://www.pprune.org/australia-new-zealand-pacific/640096-plan-shift-half-sydneyis-air-traffic-controllers-melbourne.html

And planned future changes:

Digital Air Traffic Towers Expand in Australia

Airservices Australia is progressing with plans to launch the country's first digital air traffic control towers, beginning at Western Sydney Airport in 2025. The system will then expand to other locations including Canberra. These towers will replace traditional panoramic windows with advanced...

theaussiecorporate.com

Not the highest quality links but I'm working.

 

[jb747]

I'm not sure that making a mistake, and then having it corrected is all that bad a thing. What does concern me is that the 737 crossed the holding line, even though it should have been able to see the Dash.

 

[Quickstatus]

mobile tower

What is a mobile tower?
....

with the 737 stopping after the holding point

Someone in the 737 lost situational awareness.

But at least not as bad as a 747Freighter who declared low fuel when he was east of DFW when the flight was supposed to be NLU-IAH.
It is a mystery why he was over DFW and not IAH, then declaring low fuel, then requesting landing at IAH Rwy 26R

 

[Warragul]

I am neither an insider nor an expert and I am very open to correction on the details however I was referring to both past plans:

https://www.pprune.org/australia-ne...dneyis-air-traffic-controllers-melbourne.html

I think that plan got canned, with the positions in question moving offsite - elsewhere in Sydney. IIRC.

Even if all these changes come about, how does that translate to most airports having no staff physical present now?

 

[Saab34]

I'm not sure that making a mistake, and then having it corrected is all that bad a thing. What does concern me is that the 737 crossed the holding line, even though it should have been able to see the Dash.

PNF normally does a ‘clear’ check before crossing? Is that a thing?

 

[Rayesfeg]

Even if all these changes come about, how does that translate to most airports having no staff physical present now?

Off topic, but if the perpetually grumpy staff at Syd security screening could also be relocated offsite, it would be a better experience for all passengers

 

[Rabs97]

At least SYD still has staff. Most AU airports have no ATC staff physically present now.

WSI, Canberra and Ballina are the only current control towers without physical staff. You have to go down to list of highest pax number airports all the way to Proserpine to find an Australian airport without any tower.

Digital towers should be able to supplement traditional towers at more airports, as the biggest problem is staffing levels.

 

[drron]

The news.com report this morning made me laugh. They had the 737 arriving from CBR and the Crash 8 from Queenstown NZ. Now that would be an interesting experience.