Nabbing spare goodies from premium cabins

[Foreigner]

Appreciating it's heading OT - this surprised me when I moved from NZ, where prosecutors are admitted practitioners first and foremost. Some are sworn police and others not.

NSW has now a fast track program in place for lawyers wanting to become a prosecutor vs having to serve 3 years as a beat cop first.

The US could do with such program, given the oversupply of law school graduates and most of these with ballooning debts.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/19/b...-no-place-to-use-it.html?src=rec&recp=16&_r=0

 

[Atleastonce]

I agree with this. You'd fail at the hurdle of lacking an honest belief that the owner could not be found (presuming that the airline remains the owner if the kit is from a seat that had not been sold).

It seems to fall into the same category of cases where people find cases/ bags of money and try and keep them.

This is correct, and I don't at any point advocate that our legislation is always correct, but this is what we have to work with, and live with. Stealing by mistake, or stealing by finding is legislated, but also is technical. Just like the Australian road rules for example, does anyone physically check and sight the drivers licence of a friend or spouse before letting them drive your vehicle? I would suspect not, but the Act says you have to. A technicality, but law!

I agree with some of the comments on this thread, and the prosecution would need to prove beyond reasonable doubt, which is a high burden to reach, but the defense only needs to reach the burden of balance of probabilities. if you revert to my previous comments about how good your lawyer is in having certain evidence or facts omitted, putting doubt in a magistrates mind in a steal by finding would be relative easy, for some (I have seen some ordinary defense lawyers) Not sure about tendering this thread as evidence, I would immediately object to that action stating hearsay, or allow if you called every participant as a witness and allow me the opportunity to cross examine them, and I know that would not happen so I would roll the dice with confidence on that objection.

Under NSW criminal law, there is an offence of goods in custody, now that's interesting if you were charged with having an amenity kit in your possession illegally (i.e.: unlawful possession) the burden of proof under this offence shifts to the accused ( or defendant) to prove they were legally allowed to have it. This offence is the only criminal offence in NSW whereby the accused has the onus to prove they were allowed to have the item. This poses another question as to which jurisdiction is applicable on the aircraft on an international flight. Before customs, are you still under international law, or commonwealth law or state law? The Tokyo convention may not apply in this instance because there is no threat to a person or property, but what is the definition of 'threat'. See this is complicated, and why the application of law is so fascinating, if you like that stuff, but i can see that it can also be so frustrating if does not go your way. This is why people defend matters with so much passion and vigor because they think their reasoning is always right. Interesting topic to follow.

 

[Atleastonce]

I completely agree.

But I would never try to get one through the court

Juddles, what about NSW Crimes Act section 527C, goods in custody. Surely that would be an easy one to prosecute in this instance. If NSW legislation would apply, and I suspect it would only if the item was taken as the person exited the aircraft on a domestic flight landing at a NSW airport.

 

[milehighclub]

On QF flights, amenities are handed out to each person, not preset.

Bottles of water though are different to amenities and even if unopened would be disposed of at the end of the flight. On the A330 where they can now be preset, a bottle is placed in every seat and the crew can collect bottles from vacant seats to hand out as passengers finish their first one.

 

[Milboo]

This is correct, and I don't at any point advocate that our legislation is always correct, but this is what we have to work with, and live with. Stealing by mistake, or stealing by finding is legislated, but also is technical. Just like the Australian road rules for example, does anyone physically check and sight the drivers licence of a friend or spouse before letting them drive your vehicle? I would suspect not, but the Act says you have to. A technicality, but law!

I agree with some of the comments on this thread, and the prosecution would need to prove beyond reasonable doubt, which is a high burden to reach, but the defense only needs to reach the burden of balance of probabilities. if you revert to my previous comments about how good your lawyer is in having certain evidence or facts omitted, putting doubt in a magistrates mind in a steal by finding would be relative easy, for some (I have seen some ordinary defense lawyers) Not sure about tendering this thread as evidence, I would immediately object to that action stating hearsay, or allow if you called every participant as a witness and allow me the opportunity to cross examine them, and I know that would not happen so I would roll the dice with confidence on that objection.

Under NSW criminal law, there is an offence of goods in custody, now that's interesting if you were charged with having an amenity kit in your possession illegally (i.e.: unlawful possession) the burden of proof under this offence shifts to the accused ( or defendant) to prove they were legally allowed to have it. This offence is the only criminal offence in NSW whereby the accused has the onus to prove they were allowed to have the item. This poses another question as to which jurisdiction is applicable on the aircraft on an international flight. Before customs, are you still under international law, or commonwealth law or state law? The Tokyo convention may not apply in this instance because there is no threat to a person or property, but what is the definition of 'threat'. See this is complicated, and why the application of law is so fascinating, if you like that stuff, but i can see that it can also be so frustrating if does not go your way. This is why people defend matters with so much passion and vigor because they think their reasoning is always right. Interesting topic to follow.

Not to mention some ordinary magistrates especially when the phrase "with respect" needs to be used...

From memory the jurisdiction on an aircraft is that of where the carrier is registered/ operates from.

 

[Anna]

If I had to defend someone in these circumstances I would start by tendering a copy of this very AFF thread

I'm assuming this suggestion is a joke.

 

[RooFlyer]

Here's s dilemma for some of you. Amenity kits at a winery. Nick/ don't nick? ( sorry for the iPhone tilt)

 

[Quickstatus]

Here's s dilemma for some of you. Amenity kits at a winery. Nick/ don't nick? ( sorry for the iPhone tilt)

Definitely leave behind. we have enough potions and lotions in the bathroom. Even my shaver does not get a permanent spot

 

[medhead]

Here's s dilemma for some of you. Amenity kits at a winery. Nick/ don't nick? ( sorry for the iPhone tilt)

You can edit the picture in iPhone and then rotate them, I think.

 

[RooFlyer]

You can edit the picture in iPhone and then rotate them, I think.

Yes, just need to trim a fraction off the bottom, but sometimes I forget

 

[medhead]

Yes, just need to trim a fraction off the bottom, but sometimes I forget

Should need to change the size, but yes in the crop function. It was a recent revelation for me to discover.

 

[coriander]

I love my amenity kits. As do family members. Use them for all sorts of electrical thinggies.

+1
Just dragged out my kits to start packing the various "electrical thingies" and filters for our Malteser and Swiss Chocolate trip (hmm good title for a TR) next week. Reasonable variety to choose from, even though I'm only a rusted-on QF person.

 

[Pushka]

+1
Just dragged out my kits to start packing the various "electrical thingies" and filters for our Malteser and Swiss Chocolate trip (hmm good title for a TR) next week. Reasonable variety to choose from, even though I'm only a rusted-on QF person.

View attachment 73319

The red SK-ll are a good size. The Kate Spade colourful one is my small cosmetics bag. I have some of the red/grey ones but not sure where I put them?

I seem to have more Emirates ones. The issue of living in Adelaide.

 

[marki]

It is no one's business who you guest into a lounge or how often. You have earned status and are entitled to guest anyone you want. Go for it.

Plus one on this

 

[marki]

Definitely leave behind. we have enough potions and lotions in the bathroom. Even my shaver does not get a permanent spot

Those are not complimentary

 

[coriander]

The red SK-II ones are a good size. The Kate Spade colourful one is my small cosmetics bag. I have some of the red/grey ones but not sure where I put them?

The black and red red SK-II ones are QF F (male black / red female); the red/grey are male QF J, Kate Spade is female QF J (likewise just snaffled by Mrs C after I took the photo). The B&W ones I think are old QF Y (or discarded old J). The QF SK-II black ones are great - they have an extra side zipper for tiny things like USB-C -> μUSB adapters, and the like.

 

[Pushka]

The black and red red SK-II ones are QF F (male black / red female); the red/grey are male QF J, Kate Spade is female QF J (likewise just snaffled by Mrs C after I took the photo). The B&W ones I think are old QF Y (or discarded old J). The QF SK-II black ones are great - they have an extra side zipper for tiny things like USB-C -> μUSB adapters, and the like.

Unfortunately MrP snaffles his sets. . He really likes the Emirates one. They have width as well as depth. And of course that Kate Spade belongs to MrsC. What were you thinking!!!

 

[dodgeydiver]

Surely you can't be that desperate to take these items. Legally you're ok but in a moral and ethical sense my view you're not..

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Surely you can't be that desperate to take these items.

Some might call it desperate, others might consider it resourceful The small bottles of lotions and potions are sometimes good quality and useful for travel.

 

[Austman]

The small bottles of lotions and potions are sometimes good quality and useful for travel.

Too right. Eg when doing a HLO trip over more than a week. Some of the hotel supplied amenities are pretty terrible even in some 4 and 5 star hotels!