Massive QF Fail [Airline moved PAX to earlier flight-did not inform PAX]

[clazman]

I


REDROO. may I propose a system: QF nneds to change a passengers itinerary. QF not only needs to send a message to passenger but also get a confirmed reply from that passenger to that message. If the passenger does not reply and arrives late QF then has to recover that situation without cost to the passenger.

Exactly right

 

[Flying mermaid]

Our flight (award booking) was cancelled on Friday and we were phoned up the day before and asked if we wanted to be put on the flight before or after. I was pleasantly surprised at the service....

 

[Himeno]

REDROO. may I propose a system: QF nneds to change a passengers itinerary. QF not only needs to send a message to passenger but also get a confirmed reply from that passenger to that message. If the passenger does not reply and arrives late QF then has to recover that situation without cost to the passenger.

Yep. Only time I've had a flight cancelled on me was a QF CBR-MEL before I joined QFF.
Aircraft went tech in MEL and never flew to CBR, so the return was cancelled. All pax were moved to the earlier flight.
I arrived at the airport in time for the original flight, only to find it had been cancelled. Was told they had called and left a message.
Only issue with that. I don't use the land line, so don't give that number out. I don't use voice mail on my mobile. QF could not have "called and left a message", as there was no where for such a message to have been left.

 

[BD1959]

Early last year, there seemed to be a spate of peak-hour SYD-MEL cancellations, would usually receive an SMS from QF, would usually be a race between the SMS and BB Travel to see which updated me first; would then call the Plat line to discuss options (usually already put on a flight 15mins either side but they would be very accommodating).

Therefore I was surprised to receive a call from QF last Wednesday to advise that my 4:45pm had been cancelled "I presume you've already been notified" was the guy's opening statement "but your flight has been cancelled due to the aircraft being struck by lightning!". No, I hadn't had boo from any system. As it happens, my original boarding time clashed with a subsequently arranged conf call, so I was happy - as was the QF Rep - to push my flight back to 5:30pm.

Highlights the not only the inconsistency with the process from last year, but also the lack of process which QF themselves expect to be executed; also serves to reinforce the massive fail of QF on the part of the OP: not only in the original process but in the (lack of) service recovery.

Regards,

BD

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Yep. Only time I've had a flight cancelled on me was a QF CBR-MEL before I joined QFF.
Aircraft went tech in MEL and never flew to CBR, so the return was cancelled. All pax were moved to the earlier flight.
I arrived at the airport in time for the original flight, only to find it had been cancelled. Was told they had called and left a message.

Only issue with that. I don't use the land line, so don't give that number out. I don't use voice mail on my mobile. QF could not have "called and left a message", as there was no where for such a message to have been left.

They could easily have meant they called but were unable to reach you even if they couldn't physically leave a message. In any case any attempt to call you would be logged in your pnr with the time the attempt was made.

 

[rogerkambah]

All dead easy when you had a cosy Government instigated and supported arrangement that included identical prices, aircraft and flight times.

Yes, this was a historical perspective.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

A few key points here:

a) Was the sms sent by the airline & if so, why was it not received by the OP (it would be logged in the pnr if an sms was sent)?

b) Whether res do a callout to pax depends on when the flight is cancelled eg if a SYD/BNE flight is cancelled due to lack of SYD ATC slots then the airline would know a few hours in advance that they will have to cancel the BNE/SYD flight due to nil a/c and therefore have time to call pax as opposed to an a/c going u/s shortly before departure so a res callout would be pointless because the pax would already be at the airport or on their way.

c) The airline will attempt to get pax on the next available service which in the OP's case was one hour prior to the original ETD but was missed through no fault of the pax (see above).

d) There is only one evening flight SYD/WGA at 1850 and therefore the only option if flying in the pm BNE/SYD (you would need to catch the 1125 flight ex BNE to arrive in SYD at 1400 to catch the 1530 SYD/WGA flight) as you also have QLD's lack of daylight saving working against you.

e) If it's not possible for the airline to get you to your final destination same day they would overnight you in SYD and pay for your accommodation and meals and book you on the next available SYD/WGA flight which would be the next morning.

f) There is no mention in the QF Customer Charter (see link below from QF website) if and when they will accommodate pax on other airlines however it largely depends on the frequency of flights on their own services between the affected cities ie if there are a high frequency of flights BNE/SYD I would think it unlikely they would book on another airline. The latter option would be more inconvenient for a lot of pax who had luggage as there would be no through check of bags BNE VA SYD QF WGA so it would be more of a disservice to customers.

g) The OP's family circumstances were relevant in his decision to purchase a VA ticket BNE/SYD. Due to very little lead time available prior to the VA flight there possibly wasn't sufficient time for QF to FIM the pax across to VA even if they did agree to it.

h) Lounge staff don't handle the rebooking of disrupted pax on to other carriers via FIM's.

Customer Charter | Qantas

3. We will look after you if things don't go as planned

Delays and Cancellations
We are committed to on time performance however sometimes bad weather, natural disasters, technical problems, operational and other issues can cause flight delays and even cancellations.
If this happens, we will do all we can to fix the problem and keep you informed of developments and the choices that are available to you.
If we become aware at least two hours ahead of your scheduled departure time that your Qantas operated domestic flight will be delayed more than 45 minutes or cancelled, we will use the contact details you provided in your booking to let you or your travel agent know.
We will also do this for international departures from Australia, if we become aware at least four hours ahead of your scheduled departure time that your Qantas operated flight will be delayed more than 60 minutes or cancelled.
If your flight is cancelled, we will offer an alternative flight on our services to get you to your destination at no additional cost to you. If we cannot offer you suitable alternative arrangements we will provide you with a full refund for the affected flight.
In the unlikely event that your flight is delayed overnight for reasons within our control and you are away from your home port, we will provide you with meals, accommodation and transfers.
If your travel with Qantas is disrupted for reasons that are outside our control and you are away from your home port, we will provide overnight accommodation (including breakfast).

 

[RichardMEL]

I already commented on this on fb but I'll summerise my feelings again on this:

1. Even if QF did send a text to the OP this is a fail because we all know these systems are NOT reliable; QF rebooked him on an EARLIER flight - automatically they should have PHONED him to make sure this arrangement was acceptable - he could be in meetings or not in a position to make it to the airport in time, and then they could work to other solutions *that suits the passenger* - this seemingly was not attempted (and it seems odd as the one cxl I've had on QF in heaps of flights res did call me though I'd already sorted it in the lounge but it was still a timely call).

2. If the Lounge Angel does not have the auth to FIM the passenger then they simply should have contacted res, or whoever IS authorised to do this. Checking availability on VA is a good service... then making the pax book and pay there at the desk.. no. It was QF's responsibility; the fact that the OP showed up at BNE in time for the original flight, and clearly had no evidence of contact on his phone (or could have shown that) would be reason enough for QF to take responsibility and make it right including NOT making him pay another cent or go through all that. The response should have been "We're so sorry you were not notified, we know you need to get to WGA, this VA flight is available and we've booked you on it. You'll need to go check in with them though" - they can deal with refunds and ORC and all the rest of that stuff after the fact.

Put simply there were TWO failures, and the first one was compounded 10 times by the 2nd in my view. That the pax did not get suitable notification (let's even credit that some times phones, as smart as they are, *sometimes* do not receive calls, or texts can be delayed or whatever) - that's one thing.. but the non recovery of the situation is a much more epic fail to my way of thinking.. and this has nothing to do with any status of the passenger because that simply should not come into it.

Just my 2 cents. Will be interesting to see what follow up there is on this from QF.

 

[RooFlyer]

A few key points here:

<snip>

OBB, with sincere respect, I think that's a bit of over-analysis. The things that matter to the OP I suggest are:

1. The pax had his flight brought forward and wasn't notified. If an SMS fails (and we know if an SMS fails or not), then phone it! Airlines collect all this contact info off us; in QF's case home, work, mobile numbers, e-mail, home address; but when it comes to use it for the pax's benefit - useless!!

2. The pax was then face to face with lounge staff and unfolded his problem. They were kind enough to phone Virgin - then left him to his own devices.

And this one of your points:

h) Lounge staff don't handle the rebooking of disrupted pax on to other carriers via FIM's.

... sorry, that's bordering on facile (I know that's harsh, apologies, but the word fits my opinion). No, I imagine the Qantas reservations people, or maybe 'supervisors' look after that. So maybe the lounge Staff should have phoned them, rather than Virgin?

 

[JohnK]

I have received phone calls in the past when my flight has been cancelled or delayed but not always. I have been able to get earlier or happily get later flights.

Things go wrong ... it's the method of recovery that matters. On face value, QF have a major fail with this one. Hope the OP manages to garner satisfactory compensation!

Be careful. Satisfactory compensation is not a phrase understood by Qantas.

 

[dajop]

... sorry, that's bordering on facile (I know that's harsh, apologies, but the word fits my opinion). No, I imagine the Qantas reservations people, or maybe 'supervisors' look after that. So maybe the lounge Staff should have phoned them, rather than Virgin?

We all know at the best of times resolving such issues takes time (in any big company not just airlines). It seems to me that time was precious and lounge staff went for the quickest (but perhaps least customer appeasing route) of getting a VA ticket in the quickest manner possible. They may have had an idea of fare class OP was in thus the coverage it would provide.

Will be interesting to see if the refund does cover the VA fare and if not, what "goodwill", if any will be provided.

Seems though big fail on lack of notification. One thing to debate the appropriateness (or not) of SMS vs call for delayed flights, but cases where flight is brought forward is entirely a different matter and should mean a call and confirmation.

I assume this ticket was bought from QF and not a travel agent?

 

[RichardMEL]

This is the sort of situation where how QF as a whole deals with a customer can make or break that relationship, potentially forever. This is why service recovery is so vital, and the closer to the event as possible the better. Ideally, a phone call received within ~30m (to be fair) of the cancellation being made would have, most likely, meant the other issue would not have happened. Customer would have been annoyed, but probably understanding and hopefully able to make that earlier connection. Case closed.

Now we have an issue that has been compounded by (to the customer) poor recovery attempts by the airline, in this case represented by the Lounge Agent. I am sure they were doing their best to assist and it could well be a training issue, but the fact is the customer comes off feeling (and being) poorly treated by QF within the space of hours. It seems to me this is where the airline could have sorted it out by escalating to the appropriate area to organise a FIM to VA and get the OP on his way ASAP. We all know "stuff happens" and generally are pretty good to accept it and work to get where we want to go.

I think if it were me and I was in that situation I would have asked "So can you rebook me onto VA?" if the agent had said "I can check on availability but you'll have to make the booking" I'd be polite but firm and say that I believe it's QF's responsibility and if that agent can't help me, would it be best to talk to Premium Reservations, or perhaps a supervisor there? Not take it out on the Lounge Angel, but to try to get things sorted ASAP. If they'd said no they can't do it, your flight passed, your booking has no value(or whatever) in the QF system and so we can't easilY FIM you (or whatever reasons) then I'd probably say fine, call VA and book the flight and deal with it later. Either way, handing a customer the phone and saying "now you book it" - fail from multiple points of view in my book.

As a customer I can handle bad stuff happening and deal with but what I want is information and to understand why. For example, if QF couldn't easily (within minutes) rebook me due to the PNR being voided/cancelled due to no show (from their point of view) then OK fine, I get that could take time to resolve but tell me... that at least makes me annoyed, but I can understand at least WHY I'dbe asked to call VA and book my own transport. Then I can be on my way and take it up post getting home which is what I really want.

that's just me though.

Anyway so far it seems QF has done little (that we know of) to recover from this issue. I'd think at bare minimum you'd want the VA fare covered. The passenger shouldn't be out of pocket extra due to a situation that was not of their causing. Obviously further things like upgrade points spent should be refunded and ORC be given. Beyond that I don't know, but I would expect that stuff as a minimum.

I wish the OP luck in resolving this situation to his satisfaction

 

[OzEire]

It seems that when pax take decisive action to proactively manage a situation that THE AIRLINE caused, they are penalized by having to fight for reasonable compensation. Such pax are frequent flyers, like us, who know about route timings (eg. last flight) and limitations such as curfew.

Pie in the sky but wouldn't it be great if the OP received a call the following day "hi, this is Bob from QF. Your fare has been refunded to $X and we have credited YY,000 points for your trouble, does that leave you out of pocket ? If yes then, ok, thanks to your initiative we calculated that you saved us hotel/transfers/meal and countless staff time arranging all of that, so would you prefer that in points, voucher or cheque ?"

 

[TomVexille]

It seems that when pax take decisive action to proactively manage a situation that THE AIRLINE caused, they are penalized by having to fight for reasonable compensation. Such pax are frequent flyers, like us, who know about route timings (eg. last flight) and limitations such as curfew.

Pie in the sky but wouldn't it be great if the OP received a call the following day "hi, this is Bob from QF. Your fare has been refunded to $X and we have credited YY,000 points for your trouble, does that leave you out of pocket ? If yes then, ok, thanks to your initiative we calculated that you saved us hotel/transfers/meal and countless staff time arranging all of that, so would you prefer that in points, voucher or cheque ?"

What you're suggesting is proactive service recovery to one of your higher level frequent flyers. They don't seem to have thought of that yet.

 

[RichardMEL]

It seems that when pax take decisive action to proactively manage a situation that THE AIRLINE caused, they are penalized by having to fight for reasonable compensation. Such pax are frequent flyers, like us, who know about route timings (eg. last flight) and limitations such as curfew.

Pie in the sky but wouldn't it be great if the OP received a call the following day "hi, this is Bob from QF. Your fare has been refunded to $X and we have credited YY,000 points for your trouble, does that leave you out of pocket ? If yes then, ok, thanks to your initiative we calculated that you saved us hotel/transfers/meal and countless staff time arranging all of that, so would you prefer that in points, voucher or cheque ?"

Except that the OP did not so much take proactive action himself, but more or less had it thrust upon him (being handed the phone to book his own VA flight). The Lounge Angel did assist by checking availability, but this is different. I would say taking proactive action would have been to get on expertflyer and see there were Y (or J! he was upgraded! LOL) seats on the VA flight and calling or asking the agent to rebook, or perhaps just going and doing it himself (end result being the same)...

I would actually see that situation (pax takes action themselves to purchase new ticket) as being different in terms of what QF should respond with. For example, in OP's situation, imagine he found he'd missed the flight he thought he was on because it was cancelled and he'd been put on an earlier flight he was not aware of.. so he says oh I can't make SYD in time on QF, I'm buying VA... if he didn't talk to QF (which any logical person would of course) and just went ahead and bought an OA ticket, QF could come back and say "Well you made your own arrangements; we're off the hook" - but in this case, he did all he could within the system and rightfully expecting QF to honour the contract he made with them by buying the ticket, to get him to his destination. The end result is he was (is?) out of pocket for the VA sector but right now as the case stands in my view QF are clearly at fault here.

Seems to me OP was penalised for expecting QF to do the right thing.

Yes you would absolutely hope recover would be swift to acknowledge that yes we stuffed up, and here's how we're going to make it right. You'd hope any airline would do that.

As an aside I was in a similar situation a couple of years ago at LAX. I'd booked a ticket on a podunk regional airline to get to a tiny hole in California (more for the interest factor plus it was where my friend lived) and I arrived at LAX well in advance off a flight from SEA to find the flight had been cancelled. Ticket counter says well we can offer you a hotel and next flight in 24h (umm no) or refund. They refused to put me on another carrier to the next nearest city (nobody else flew to smallville, and for good reason having been there ) but they did process a refund on the spot and I basically had to go over to AA and purchase a full Y walk up ticket (ugh) to get to within 50mi of my friend. In the end insurance paid out on it and it was OK but in a way it is kind of similar to the OP. Difference is in the USA I expect that kind of treatment... here... not so much specially for a network/legacy carrier like QF when they also flew the final sector to WGA (well ok QF*/Eastern or whatever).

 

[MatF]

Red Roo is on the case.

 

[MatF]

OK.

I received a phone call to my mobile phone from Customer Care (I enjoyed the irony for a minute) this afternoon.
Kathryn from Customer Care apologised for the way the cancellation was handled, and any inconvenience I suffered, and is refunding the cost of the VA ticket.

So in the end both the QF and VA flights are being refunded, and points and SC's for the original cancelled flight have posted to my account too, so I have ORC.

I'm happy with that.

My sincere thanks to Red Roo.

 

[Ansett]

OK.

I received a phone call to my mobile phone from Customer Care (I enjoyed the irony for a minute) this afternoon.
Kathryn from Customer Care apologised for the way the cancellation was handled, and any inconvenience I suffered, and is refunding the cost of the VA ticket.

So in the end both the QF and VA flights are being refunded, and points and SC's for the original cancelled flight have posted to my account too, so I have ORC.

I'm happy with that. Here's hoping it was a one off stuff up.

My sincere thanks to Red Roo.

That's a great outcome Good to see.

May I suggest posting in the Red Roo appreciation Thread

http://www.australianfrequentflyer....rogram/red-roo-appreciation-thread-65796.html

 

[MatF]

Will do - have sent Red Roo a thank you PM , but I'll put a link in that thread too.

 

[TomVexille]

Sounds like a satisfactory outcome