Man Removed off JQ Flight After Vaping, Exposing Himself, Taking the Piss

[JohnK]

I smoked cigarettes from 14 years old - 39 years old. For the majority of my adult life it was 60+ cigarettes a day. Almost killed me. Filthy disgusting habit. Cannot stand the smell as it makes me feel sick.

Now vaping has become trendy. It still stinks. It's still a filthy disgusting habit. Cannot believe the number of people vaping in the golf sports bar in Thailand after golf. I like to sit and have 2-3 drinks after golf and sit outside but the smell is still awful.

And if vaping/smoking wasn't enough now we've got people legally buying pot and walking around on a high. The smell of pot is more disgusting than tobacco but luckily I've managed to stay away from it here on holiday.

And also I do not understand how all these discussions become about the rights of smokers/vapers. How about the rights of those who do not indulge? How about my rights to breathe clean air? Thailand for the most part has ignored rules/regulations and it is a free for all.

 

[dajop]

Ok, I think we need to invoke Sir Humphrey. Still remains some truth to this …

 

[JessicaTam]

[mod hat]
A number of posts have been removed.

Please keep to the thread topic concerning the pax being removed for their behaviour. Not the merits or otherwise of smoking vs vaping.
[/mod hat]

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Please keep to the thread topic concerning the pax being removed for their behaviour. Not the merits or otherwise of smoking vs vaping.

Thanks for the reminder.

For how much we like to criticize JetStar, I think the crew should be commended on how quickly they responded to the incident. Much better to get this resolved on the ground than to take it up in the air. No doubt passengers were frustrated by all this drama but this could have turned into something more serious.

In terms of whether the airline could determine whether a passenger was going to be an cough on the plane sometimes that is hard to tell. People can look normal on the outside and may not even smell of malt liquor but when they get on board they think they own the place. I also don't think it is practical for airline or airport authorities to go out of their way to look for these items. It's already a pain to go through airport security as it is now (doubly so for international flights). One must wonder how much more checks would be required to identify untrustworthy passengers. For instance, would passengers need to sit in a psychiatrist couch and tell their life story before being given the all clear? I would argue (and I know people aren't gonna appreciate this) but having something like a no-fly list, identity checks at security checkpoints could ensure that people who aren't allowed to fly aren't actually allowed to fly. For those curious, at the moment, you could book a domestic flight ticket under the name Mickey Mouse and take the flight. Yes sometimes airlines will check IDs but if you manage to check-in online from my experience, you can pass through as the Mouse.

Yes, these outbursts happen on planes, and it's not just a situation unique to Australia (although I reckon it occurs more often here than elsewhere) but they are a rare occurrence. Perhaps increasing fines or making it the law that you cannot board a plane when you are prosecuted for being a jerk on a plane will help. Maybe having placards at airports reminding passengers of the punishments for being an cough will go some way towards mitigating these issues.

-RooFlyer88

 

[Lynda2475]

although I reckon it occurs more often here than elsewhere

On what basis do you make this claim? Media reports indicate that USA and UK top the world in air-rage incidents.

What I would observe is that here these types of incidents happen in flights originating from Bali more often than not.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

On what basis do you make this claim? Media reports indicate that USA and UK top the world in air-rage incidents.

Peer reviewed paper analyzing air rage incidents from 2000 to 2020:

Air rage incidents were reported to have occurred on flights originating from 34 countries (Fig. 2), with the most frequent countries of origin being the United States (n = 72), the United Kingdom (n = 43), Australia (n = 11), Spain (n = 10), and Canada (n =10).

Now you will rightly point out that US and UK have higher air rage incidents during that time, and you would be right. But remember, the population and number of travellers going through both countries is also considerably higher, too!

-RooFlyer88

 

[tdimdad]

Peer reviewed paper analyzing air rage incidents from 2000 to 2020:

Now you will rightly point out that US and UK have higher air rage incidents during that time, and you would be right. But remember, the population and number of travellers going through both countries is also considerably higher, too!

-RooFlyer88

Where in the article did you find the country-specific quantities, please? The public version has only a map (Fig 2) which roughly indicates the range. And any counts of incidents in this context become meaningful only as frequencies, i.e. when they are normalised against the size of the population (number of pax transported in each country).

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Where in the article did you find the country-specific quantities, please? The public version has only a map (Fig 2) which roughly indicates the range. And any counts of incidents in this context become meaningful only as frequencies, i.e. when they are normalised against the size of the population (number of pax transported in each country).

Page 2 in the section Results under the subsection Trends in Air Rage Incidents:

 

[drron]

When you compare populations we Australians punch above our weight. Pun intended.

 

[Lynda2475]

Its a shame you don't have the breakdown post pandemic, because reading articles with more recent data shows huge growth in US especially.

https://www.airlineratings.com/featured/air-rage-incidents-soared-in-2022/

One interesting tid-bit from the 2022 data was that:

The most common examples of non-compliance were:
• Smoking of cigarettes, e-cigarettes, vapes and puff devices in the cabin or lavatories
• Failure to fasten seatbelts when instructed
• Exceeding the carry-on baggage allowance or failing to store baggage when required
• Consumption of own alcohol on board

When you compare populations we Australians punch above our weight. Pun intended.

But if we stopped flights to from Bali the number would be virtually zero.

 

[DejaBrew]

When you compare populations we Australians punch above our weight. Pun intended.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

But if we stopped flights to from Bali the number would be virtually zero.

I'm not so sure of that. There have been many incidents just on domestic Australian flights (incident 1 and incident 2 for reference)

One interesting tid-bit from the 2022 data was that:

The most common examples of non-compliance were:
• Smoking of cigarettes, e-cigarettes, vapes and puff devices in the cabin or lavatories
• Failure to fasten seatbelts when instructed
• Exceeding the carry-on baggage allowance or failing to store baggage when required
• Consumption of own alcohol on board

Not to open the smoking can of worms again, but I will point out that it is likely being intoxicated is a key cause of these air rage incidents. I have yet to hear of a smoker lose all inhibitions after taking a good puff of cigarette. But I have heard of stories of blokes who drank their body weight in liquor and proceeded to belligerent.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

LOL. Exceeding the cabin baggage allowance is now the equivalent of smoking or drinking your own alcohol on board? Had to inflate the numbers somehow I guess!

 

[Lynda2475]

The non-compliance action is what precedes/starts the air rage incident i.e. dufus is vaping on board, is busted and told to cease, refuses and then when staff insist some sort or tantrum or physical abuse ensues.

Anyone who has witnessed the mad scramble for overhead bin space on US domestic flights absolutely can see how if one passenger attempts to move another bag to make space can result in rage and violence.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

LOL. Exceeding the cabin baggage allowance is now the equivalent of smoking or drinking your own alcohol on board? Had to inflate the numbers somehow I guess!

What you must realize about the United States is air travel is much different than Australia. You have to pay for checked bags on most fares, and in some cases you have to pay for the luxury of overhead bin space (I believe Spirit does this). So yes, people do get testy when the overhead bin space they paid for is tied up by some jerk who thinks it's fine to stow their backpack, roller bag, and grande size bag of Taco Bell in the overhead bin. Realize too, the United States also a wider mix of Jets. Whereas in Australia it is either the A320 and Boeing 737 (or the occasional MD-737 with airlines like Bonza), in the United States you are looking at things like the Bombardier Dash-8, Embrarer, Boeing 717 and even McDonald's Douglas aircraft aside from the aforementioned 737 model that is now cropping up here in Australia. Some on this forum may point out to the fact that occasionally you will find these tiny aircraft operating some routes in Australia. And that's true. But we are talking about regional routes to towns like Rockhampton and Albury. We aren't talking about service between capital cities like Sydney and Melbourne. Meanwhile in the US they are everywhere including flights to major cities. Heck my flight from Pittsburgh to Minneapolis (two fairly large cities) was on an Embrarer on Delta Airways.

-RooFlyer88

 

[BAM1748]

On what basis do you make this claim? Media reports indicate that USA and UK top the world in air-rage incidents.

What I would observe is that here these types of incidents happen in flights originating from Bali more often than not.

US and UK sound logical, many more people flying in the US and UK being an Island means many flying to get anywhere.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

It's remarkable that - if we are indeed talking about drivers - that none of them concern anything within the airlines' control!! Delays, cancellations, downgrades, separating families on board, lack of communication.

 

[eastwest101]

It's remarkable that - if we are indeed talking about drivers - that none of them concern anything within the airlines' control!! Delays, cancellations, downgrades, separating families on board, lack of communication.

Indeed - I followed the discussion as being about the trigger event that precedes the 'air rage' or offloading/arrest/detention of the passenger(s)- this is the airlines often doing it to themselves:

1. seating density - totally controlled by the airlines.
2. checked-in baggage fees - controlled by the airlines.
3. delays - sometimes controlled by the airlines, but not always, optimistic scheduling & lack of redundancy vs genuine weather/ATC delays
4. separating families - yep the airline's seat allocation fees and policies
5. effects of alcohol - on board may be under the control of the airline but the potential for drinking before boarding
6. general lack of communication - could be improved by the airlines

In this particular case, the trigger was vaping that is something that's really outside the airline's control, and that's more of a bloody-minded administrative rule and/or lack of smoking/vaping facilities inside airports in some countries. Of course, we are talking about the general public here and there are always going to be a very small minority of people who will find any reason to misbehave on an aircraft. Other posters have made some interesting points about the lack of identity checks and how enforceable 'no fly lists' or 'bans' are and whether the industry cooperates at all in this regard, and if they should. After all 99.999% of people are not d%^kheads on planes so finding an effective way to temporarily or even permanently remove the 0.001% seems worth investigating.