Is Virgin planning to axe flights to Port Moresby?

[Mattg]

I was just having a look at Virgin's policy for changes to domestic & international bookings during COVID-19. Interestingly, they are allowing free changes to trans-Tasman and international short-haul bookings except to Rarotonga, Tonga and Port Moresby.

For flights to Rarotonga, Tonga or Port Moresby, Virgin says:

International Long Haul travel and travel to/from Tonga, Rarotonga and Port Moresby​

Guests are not permitted to make changes to these bookings. If you hold a booking for International Long Haul travel (including travel to/from Tonga, Rarotonga and Port Moresby), please contact our Guest Contact Centre or your Travel Agent for further information.

The reason for changes not being allowed on flights to TBU or RAR would seem to be because Virgin has publicly stated they are not returning to either of those destinations. But I don't recall an announcement about Virgin cancelling flights to POM. Did I miss the announcement? Or perhaps I'm reading too much into this?

 

[henrus]

Good pick up @Mattg , Virgin has indeed "withdrawn" from Port Moresby flights, and whilst no announcement has been made, it's clear that's the case in the latest COVID policy issued to agents dated 14 January 2021 (see page 3 - table left-hand side)

https://www.virginaustralia.com/cs/groups/internetcontent/@wc-salesagenthub/documents/webcontent/~edisp/comm-policy-coronavirus-v29...pdf

Honestly, I'm not surprised, even before COVID VA switched to Alliance to operating the route and only on weekdays. The administrators report indicated there were also cash flow problems on the route, when talking about overseas bank accounts the following was said about Papua New Guinea:

"The balance c. $11m of cash in minor currency accounts primarily comprises c. $10m. equivalent of PGK denominated cash which is trapped due to a shortage of Australian dollars in Papua New Guinea. As a result, these fund are not expected to be released from Papua New Guinea."

I imagine it's tough doing business where your funds are trapped in another country with no ability to move them back into your primary operating currency.

 

[Mattg]

Honestly, I'm not surprised, even before COVID VA switched to Alliance to operating the route and only on weekdays. The administrators report indicated there were also cash flow problems on the route, when talking about overseas bank accounts the following was said about Papua New Guinea:

"The balance c. $11m of cash in minor currency accounts primarily comprises c. $10m. equivalent of PGK denominated cash which is trapped due to a shortage of Australian dollars in Papua New Guinea. As a result, these fund are not expected to be released from Papua New Guinea."

I imagine it's tough doing business where your funds are trapped in another country with no ability to move them back into your primary operating currency.

Wow - and I thought the ~30% average load factors was the biggest problem with the PNG flights!

Thanks for sharing that document from 14 January. It does indeed refer to Port Moresby as a "withdrawn" market. I'm surprised there was no announcement!

 

[HS-TQE]

I'm surprised that POM lasted that long despite the flight being 'outsourced' to Alliance. I'm guessing the freight on the VA/QQ POM flights wasn't enough to 'subsidise' the low load factors.

 

[henrus]

I'm surprised that POM lasted that long despite the flight being 'outsourced' to Alliance. I'm guessing the freight on the VA/QQ POM flights wasn't enough to 'subsidise' the low load factors.

It's hard to tell but mail contracts and some agreements with the Australian government may have kept it going longer than it should have.

Whilst I'm not sure about Port Morseby, on flights to/from Port Vila there always seemed to be Australian government staff seated up front who got escorts upon arrival/departure. Likewise, half the plane was always full of mail from basically every shipping company - DHL, Fedex, AusPost etc. It always seemed odd they didn't use Air Vanuatu for this but maybe there was more trust in Virgin and perhaps the same occurred for the Port Morseby flights.

 

[Bagpuss]

I was just having a look at Virgin's policy for changes to domestic & international bookings during COVID-19. Interestingly, they are allowing free changes to trans-Tasman and international short-haul bookings except to Rarotonga, Tonga and Port Moresby.

For flights to Rarotonga, Tonga or Port Moresby, Virgin says:



The reason for changes not being allowed on flights to TBU or RAR would seem to be because Virgin has publicly stated they are not returning to either of those destinations. But I don't recall an announcement about Virgin cancelling flights to POM. Did I miss the announcement? Or perhaps I'm reading too much into this?

The plan is for Alliance to operate to Port Moresby from Brisbane are part of the co-orindation request which has intermin authorisation.

I expect with will be flow by a F100 or E Jet.

Virgin Australia & Alliance Airlines

On 23 October 2020 Virgin Australia and Alliance Airlines (the Applicants) applied for authorisation to cooperate in relation to the provision of services on 41 regional routes and two short-haul international routes (Relevant Routes). Details of the routes are provided in the application which...

www.accc.gov.au

https://www.accc.gov.au/system/files/public-registers/documents/Application%20Received%20-%2023.10.20%20-%20PR%20VERSION%20-%20Virgin%20Alliance.pdf

 

[henrus]

The plan is for Alliance to operate to Port Moresby from Brisbane are part of the co-orindation request which has intermin authorisation.

I expect with will be flow by a F100 or E Jet.

I suspect that's is no longer the case. VA had always been using Alliance for the POM route and they included it in the October 2020 application so that this could continue.

It seems that since then they've decided otherwise hence removing POM from future bookings and in the Version 29 - January 2021 agent covid document saying they are "withdrawing" from the POM route.

I guess if VA does ever fly to POM again, they've got $10 million in the bank account ready to get it started.

 

[Bagpuss]

I suspect that's is no longer the case. VA had always been using Alliance for the POM route and they included it in the October 2020 application so that this could continue.

It seems that since then they've decided otherwise hence removing POM from future bookings and in the Version 29 - January 2021 agent covid document saying they are "withdrawing" from the POM route.

I guess if VA does ever fly to POM again, they've got $10 million in the bank account ready to get it started.

Dont believe that's the case, other routes arent loaded such as Sydney - Port Macquarie, Sydney - Ayers Rock, Brisbane - Port Macquarie, Brisbane - Tamworth etc.

Virgin tends to take a conservative approach in recent times and expect them to start scheduling and selling tickets once they have final authorisation. They can open up ticket sales at any point.

 

[Scarlett]

There is still a ways to run yet with the current pandemic, so AUS-PNG air travel may not even be PX and QF in the future.

I'm one of those who would love to have visited PNG in the past and maybe still at some time in the future. Right now however, things are a little more concerning, even without considering COVID related restrictions. I wonder how the levels of pax and freight have varied over time between Aus and PNG? (I've tried to find that data in the BITRE stats, but am clearly not familiar enough with them - what I can tell from them appears to be that available seats grew solidly between 2004 and 2015, but has been generally falling since then)

 

[ja1]

I was just having a look at Virgin's policy for changes to domestic & international bookings during COVID-19. Interestingly, they are allowing free changes to trans-Tasman and international short-haul bookings except to Rarotonga, Tonga and Port Moresby.

For flights to Rarotonga, Tonga or Port Moresby, Virgin says:



The reason for changes not being allowed on flights to TBU or RAR would seem to be because Virgin has publicly stated they are not returning to either of those destinations. But I don't recall an announcement about Virgin cancelling flights to POM. Did I miss the announcement? Or perhaps I'm reading too much into this?

Hi Matt,

Do you have a link to where VA said they wouldn't be going back to TBU/RAR or know why ? Was it a 'pause' or a permanent cancellation do you think ? RAR used to be a great destination.. for a status run.. and as an endpoint. Quite sad I may never do that run again..

Given they were using the 737 to do it anyway I'm slightly surprised they didn't want to keep it..

 

[Must...Fly!]

Hi Matt,

Do you have a link to where VA said they wouldn't be going back to TBU/RAR or know why ? Was it a 'pause' or a permanent cancellation do you think ? RAR used to be a great destination.. for a status run.. and as an endpoint. Quite sad I may never do that run again..

Given they were using the 737 to do it anyway I'm slightly surprised they didn't want to keep it..

It was announced in mid March, first tranche of COVID related news. But before we knew how bad it might really be - quite certain it was on the possible chop list for a while beforehand.

 

[ja1]

It was announced in mid March, first tranche of COVID related news. But before we knew how bad it might really be - quite certain it was on the possible chop list for a while beforehand.

Yeah, I'm really not surprised.. I did my run back in 2019 and it was a relatively lightly loaded plane.. (surprisingly so to me!). My one and only run in J! Never to be repeated apparently...

I wish I understood their original business case for RAR in the first place to understand why it went and isn't going to come back..

You'd imagine that in terms of international travel starting back up for us, NZ and the pacific islands are just about the best destinations and are the ones most likely to have a completely vaccinated population (given the small bases involved).

 

[Must...Fly!]

Yeah, I'm really not surprised.. I did my run back in 2019 and it was a relatively lightly loaded plane.. (surprisingly so to me!). My one and only run in J! Never to be repeated apparently...

I wish I understood their original business case for RAR in the first place to understand why it went and isn't going to come back..

You'd imagine that in terms of international travel starting back up for us, NZ and the pacific islands are just about the best destinations and are the ones most likely to have a completely vaccinated population (given the small bases involved).

Some here may be in the know. It might have been a way to try and extract more (or some) value from the NZ crew bases and more flying time from the aircraft. I can not recall the original justification for moves in to the Pacific in the DJ days - presumably they were the first to provide some real competition for some years and saw the opportunity.

 

[henrus]

Dont believe that's the case, other routes arent loaded such as Sydney - Port Macquarie, Sydney - Ayers Rock, Brisbane - Port Macquarie, Brisbane - Tamworth etc.

Many of those routes you've mentioned aren't loaded because Virgin did come out to the press late last year and say they were canceled:

See the agency memo below:

Virgin Australia

As for the Tonga and Rarotonga flights they never did very well outside of peak times. Both of these flights were operated by VA NZ crew who were cut so these routes became some of the first to go.

Also quite funny as this thread seems to have been picked up by Andrew from Simple Flying, who's basically written his article based on some of the posts from this thread.

Virgin Australia Won't Return To Port Moresby, Rarotonga, And Nukuʻalofa

simpleflying.com

 

[AIRwin]

It was announced in mid March, first tranche of COVID related news.

@ja1 Here is the media release on 13 March 2020:

Virgin Australia Group update on COVID-19 response

Over the past two weeks, the global travel industry has seen a significant decline in forward bookings due to the rapid spread of COVID-19 and consumer uncertainty surrounding overseas travel.

newsroom.virginaustralia.com

Extract:
In addition, the Group also announced an exit of the following services as a continuation of the ongoing network strategic review:
• Auckland-Tonga to cease on 1 May.
• Auckland-Rarotonga to cease on 21 July.

 

[Bagpuss]

Many of those routes you've mentioned aren't loaded because Virgin did come out to the press late last year and say they were canceled:

See the agency memo below:

Virgin Australia

As for the Tonga and Rarotonga flights they never did very well outside of peak times. Both of these flights were operated by VA NZ crew who were cut so these routes became some of the first to go.

Also quite funny as this thread seems to have been picked up by Andrew from Simple Flying, who's basically written his article based on some of the posts from this thread.

Virgin Australia Won't Return To Port Moresby, Rarotonga, And Nukuʻalofa

simpleflying.com

FYI the request to the ACCC for authorisation to coperate was in October 2020, so after these announcements.

Chances are that Virgin and Alliance took the opportunity to bundle as many routes into the authorisation for re-startup in the short, medium or long term so they can the entire route network they would potentially want in one go.

In reality once flights are bookable, and you've on the plane and taken off ... you are then at that stage sure the flight is happening.

 

[PineappleSkip]

VA had always been using Alliance for the POM route

When DJ first started the route, about 2010 when I was based in POM, they were using their own 737s.

It was very much welcomed then, because QF fares were a gouge, and PX not much better. QF only had codeshare seats on PX metal, and DJ was also a much superior experience than PX. Of course, QF immediately almost matched the VA fares and it seems they never managed to claw much trade away. QF starting to operate their own aircraft BNE-POM wouldn't have helped.

cheers skip

 

[openseat]

VA had always been using Alliance for the POM route and they included it in the October 2020 application so that this could continue.

I flew on VA 737 to POM a number of times. Alliance only took over, IIRC, in 2018.

My concern is for Honiara. If Solomon Airlines are the only airline flying, the prices will go through the roof. I wonder if the mysterious co-payments will return to keep the 35% load factors.

 

[AIRwin]

I flew on VA 737 to POM a number of times. Alliance only took over, IIRC, in 2018.

It was in February 2019:

VA BNE-POM changing to a Fokker 100

Virgin's Brisbane-Port Moresby route will change from a Boeing 737-800 service to a Fokker 100 operated by Alliance Airlines from 25 February. This does mean the loss of J seating on this route. Not all that surprising really, given VA's loads on this route have been as low as 30% on a...

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

 

[henrus]

Using the old thread because I'm not sure if missed it somewhere but it seems Dunedin is also no more.

The latest agency document dated 10 Feb now lists Dunedin as a withdrawn market. No surprises here with HKG, HND, LAX, POM, TBU and RAR already mentioned so I guess DUD is the latest dud route. Obviously, all the codeshares are also not a surprise but I just checked and SQ is still selling VA-operated SQ-marketed service even for departures tomorrow.

Looking at the other codeshare partners still existing... MI is now apart of SQ, EY/DL is still selling VA operated partner marketed, HA/SA/AZ/AC/VS/HX/HU all currently aren't flying to Australia or don't have possible connections and finally NH isn't selling codeshares on VA until April.