Is Aussie ATC too slow?

[Himeno]

Thanks!

I dunno why this sort of information can’t be shared with pax up front by airlines. Providing us with information about every stage of the journey, like ATC holds, would go a long way to helping pax understand delays.

Because 95% of pax won't understand what they are being told and they'll complain about too many PAs interrupting their IFE.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Because 95% of pax won't understand what they are being told and they'll complain about too many PAs interrupting their IFE.

Well yes. But there are ways to do it… like BA had a section in their inflight magazine where they’d interview various roles across the organisation.

Could equally be distributed via short updates in the monthly FF statement. Maybe 95% don’t care, but some will find it if use. I did!

 

[maia200]

This was fascinating thank you. 1 for the question and 2 for all the information.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Looking at FR24 tonight around Sydney…hats off to ATC!

 

[pauly7]

Can I just say this is the best thread on this site in a long long long long time.

Thank you to the expert contributors!

Really interesting.

Totally agree, no ‘rabid animals’ in here

Because 95% of pax won't understand what they are being told and they'll complain about too many PAs interrupting their IFE.

Guilty as charged!

 

[Hvr]

It would be interesting to listen to ATC whilst on the flight.

As per United's channel nine, which is activated at the Captain's discretion.

Channel 9: How United Airlines Allowed Passengers To Listen To Live ATC Communications

With the flick of a switch, travelers could listen to conversations from behind the coughpit's closed doors.

simpleflying.com

 

[jb747]

It would be interesting to listen to ATC whilst on the flight.

As per United's channel nine, which is activated at the Captain's discretion.

Not much to listen to on international flights. Everything is done via data link, and the VHF is generally on a 'common' frequency, and so is mostly quiet.

 

[jb747]

I'd forgotten about the stop bars. But then the question has to be why some places are so quick at turning them off once the landing traffic has passed. Is it an automation issue perhaps?

 

[jakeseven7]

Can I ask the expert commentators what their views are on the new 3rd runway that MEL is building?

Will that allow simultaneous take offs and landings? Keen to hear a similar critical analysis

Also, when MEL builds this, and Western Syd opens which will decrease some traffic into SYD, is it possible MEL will become the busiest airport in AU?

 

[justinbrett]

Can I ask the expert commentators what their views are on the new 3rd runway that MEL is building?

Will that allow simultaneous take offs and landings? Keen to hear a similar critical analysis

It's a textbook modern parallel runway, that is spaced far enough to enable simultaneous opposite direction traffic (eg in Brisbane, departing and arriving over the bay). You can read more about it here: https://media.caapp.com.au/pdf/7fcbtp/8c4ba411-c5ff-44da-84bb-0ebf190bb213/Proposed Operating Modes.pdf

Also, when MEL builds this, and Western Syd opens which will decrease some traffic into SYD, is it possible MEL will become the busiest airport in AU?

I really don't think so, not in the first 20 years of operations anyway.

Current stats for the "big 3"* (per month):
SYD - 27,768
MEL - 20,202
BNE - 17,708

*Moorabbin and Bankstown have more movements than MEL, and Archerfield only a few hundred short - but I've excluded these as they are mostly GA & helicopter movements

The difference between SYD and MEL is more than the total movements at CBR, about the same as CNS and only about 1,000 short of ADL. I just don't see that much traffic moving.

On the flip side, BNE is ripe for growth with no alternative jet-capable airports (MEL has AVV and MEB) and by far the best runway configuration of the three (with the terminals in the middle), very similar to LHR.

Beyond that it's not really an aviation question, it's a government policy question so your guess is as good as mine!

 

[justinbrett]

I'd forgotten about the stop bars. But then the question has to be why some places are so quick at turning them off once the landing traffic has passed. Is it an automation issue perhaps?

They're not automated. Slow or Fast controller.

ATC hate them too.

 

[jakeseven7]

It's a textbook modern parallel runway, that is spaced far enough to enable simultaneous opposite direction traffic (eg in Brisbane, departing and arriving over the bay). You can read more about it here: https://media.caapp.com.au/pdf/7fcbtp/8c4ba411-c5ff-44da-84bb-0ebf190bb213/Proposed Operating Modes.pdf



I really don't think so, not in the first 20 years of operations anyway.

Current stats for the "big 3"* (per month):
SYD - 27,768
MEL - 20,202
BNE - 17,708

*Moorabbin and Bankstown have more movements than MEL, and Archerfield only a few hundred short - but I've excluded these as they are mostly GA & helicopter movements

The difference between SYD and MEL is more than the total movements at CBR, about the same as CNS and only about 1,000 short of ADL. I just don't see that much traffic moving.

On the flip side, BNE is ripe for growth with no alternative jet-capable airports (MEL has AVV and MEB) and by far the best runway configuration of the three (with the terminals in the middle), very similar to LHR.

Beyond that it's not really an aviation question, it's a government policy question so your guess is as good as mine!

Thanks very interesting

 

[jb747]

Backing up to the original comment. There’s nothing wrong with Aussie controllers. I’ve seen them all around the world. What does differ though, is the rules that they have to work under. If there is an issue, that will be the source. Best ATC…probably the UK. Worst, well the USA would be close to that.

 

[dylarr]

Worst, well the USA would be close to that.

Funny you mention that just now - only this morning this lovely little exchange popped up in my recommended YouTube videos:

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Good grief. Same flight. One week later. The ‘zippering’ tonight was muuuuch tighter at MEL.

Last week the inbound were faint lights in the distance and we had to hold. Tonight… burning bright and i was thinking ‘no way we can go’, but we did! Could practically see the pilots of the inbound as we had clearance. (And same for the flight before us.)

Obviously been reading this thread

 

[Airbumps]

@justinbrett and @jb747 - Thanks for your insights, much appreciated!