Increasing overt racism

[UP4014]

I think people are perhaps being a bit over sensitive, AJ was born somewhere else, the fight has come on thick and fast from both sides and they are using all the arguments they can, his heritage is a bit of a low argument but that doesn't make any more ugly than people here making comments about stereotyping overweight American's taking up to much seat space or old Hosties on AA or BA.

So a low act - perhaps, out of bounds - not completely.

Matt

 

[Pushka]

I think you mean the way you speak the English language. Given that Australia is not the origin of the English language I find it a little odd that Australian English is deemed to be the bench mark by which someone's dialect and pronunciation should be measured.

No, I don't mean the way "Australian English" is spoken at all. I am referring to the correct method of pronouncing vowels and combinations with consonants according to traditional linguistic principles.

 

[UP4014]

Wait until the press/unions try to score points off the fact that he is gay (according to wikipedia, it surprised me, not that there's anything wrong with that).

Learn something everyday.

 

[russ]

Racism is not tolerated on AFF. Period.

It seems to have been tolerated for the last couple of weeks.

 

[casanovawa]

I was born here for the record and I am kinda glad that i hardened up some time ago and so try not to take offence at everything... I guess its about me being reasonably confident in myself whilst also not overly giving a rat's rear orifice what too many people think about me or mine outside of a few select people that have earnt some respect for their views... But then I am in a majority in this country and so perhaps less impacted... I also think as a majority we have less protection as it is every minority group that jumps up and down the hardest while the majority tend to let many a slight go through to the keeper...

I also think the world is a complicated place and so rather than try to capture a million shades of grey people distill it down to a more manageable picture of the world, resulting in a more general view or in their own stereotypes... Some of these stereotypes are closer to reality, others are just total distorted BS... But if you don't use some level of them then to discuss any complicated topic (other than the weather) you would have to go into a thesis or War and Peace to capture every nuance and exception and who is up for that???

So to save time and allow us to take positions we generalise it down... I have no problems with the concept that certain nationalities/groups/sects etc have differences reinforced by their historical experiences that come out roughly... Does every member of the nationality/group/sect etc always have all the charateristics?? No, but taken as groups i think you can see a few typical traits or issues or actions or motivations... Good or bad... To then say that making any comment or distinction etc is racist, well its one of the most over used words or put downs going around today and quite frankly i tend to ignore it as I (and i think many others) are a bit sick of the thought police jumping up and down except when it suits them of course... After all i think we all have a few stereotypes (including them) and cherished illusions that we like to hold onto...

And the world and arguments and discourse i reckon would become a pretty sterile place if weren't allowed to have a few, without necessarily hanging them out there to cause obvious offence...

 

[clifford]

Wait until the press/unions try to score points off the fact that he is gay (according to wikipedia, it surprised me, not that there's anything wrong with that).

I didn't know that, but I'm also not surprised.

He seems to exhibit similar characteristics to my wife's ex boss.

 

[simongr]

No, I don't mean the way "Australian English" is spoken at all. I am referring to the correct method of pronouncing vowels and combinations with consonants according to traditional linguistic principles.

He talks according to traditional linguistic principles that have been around longer than Australia was defined a nation on the world scale.

 

[stomplad]

I think people are perhaps being a bit over sensitive, AJ was born somewhere else, the fight has come on thick and fast from both sides and they are using all the arguments they can, his heritage is a bit of a low argument but that doesn't make any more ugly than people here making comments about stereotyping overweight American's taking up to much seat space or old Hosties on AA or BA.

So a low act - perhaps, out of bounds - not completely.

Matt

I have to agree. I think its more of a moniker "The Irishman" rather than racist, denigrating him by not using his name.

 

[Hvr]

Wait until the press/unions try to score points off the fact that he is gay (according to wikipedia, it surprised me, not that there's anything wrong with that).

Actually his sexuality was mentioned in a recent press article. One of those who are you and what do you do type articles. He asked that his partner's name not be mentioned and the journo quite rightfully honoured his request.

It is irrelevant, once the state confirms that the two people in a relationship are consenting adults then it is none of their business.

Is it racist to denigrate Alan Joyce because if his Irish heritage? I do believe it is. Ascribing a particular behavioural characteristic to a person because of their heritage, gender etc is inappropriate.

If we said a person is useless because they were female then we would rightfully be considered sexist.

Whereas if we said he is useless etc because of his behaviours, work performance or attitude to others and nothing else then I consider that appropriate.

 

[simongr]

I have to agree. I think its more of a moniker "The Irishman" rather than racist, denigrating him by not using his name.

I have cited the comments of "Go back to where you belong" as the motivator for this thread rather than just citing his nationality. Also comparing his management of QF to the management of the Irish economy and in a particularly derogative way.

 

[Robert K]

I know people use his race as a joke, and it was funny the first few times, but it's been a few months now. It's not funny anymore.

 

[TonyHancock]

I know people use his race as a joke, and it was funny the first few times, but it's been a few months now. It's not funny anymore.

Just out of interest what race is Alan Joyce? A serious question because I don't know. I assumed white Anglo Saxon or Celtic if such a race exists.

 

[casanovawa]

Its said by reflex now without it having to make sense... Like Islam is a race... Its almost as lazy as as using AJ's nationality against him... Not that i fall too far on either side of the argument, i just tend to not like being dictated to...

By the way is patriotism, or being overtly proud of your own "race", in any way racist or reverse racism or jingoistic or is it just about seeing fault in other "races"???

 

[drron]

Simon I agree with you.The go back to where you came from remarks are indeed racist.
Straitman-as an honary Tasmanian I am offended.(insert wink,shock-damn smillies aren't working again).
Tony Sheldon if you are reading this try reccomending to QF to bring in a few Thai baggage handlers to teach your lot how to do premium baggage properly-our tagged bags out 1 and 4 in BKK last night.That doesn't happen in Australia.

 

[simongr]

By the way is patriotism, or being overtly proud of your own "race", in any way racist or reverse racism or jingoistic or is it just about seeing fault in other "races"???

No I personally do not think so - what I do not like is pre-supposing without knowledge that someone must be inferior. If you know that the regulations in other countries for the maintenance of foreign owned transport vessels is not appropriate then make that comment - and by not appropriate I do not means conforms to "your" current work practices.

EDIT

I would be more than happy for the mods to edit the thread title to something that better fits the "can we stop with the we don't like johnny foreigner" comments.

 

[samiam]

I didn't know that, but I'm also not surprised.

He seems to exhibit similar characteristics to my wife's ex boss.

That's a profoundly ignorant statement - many people exhibit similar characteristics to others - this does not an axe murderer/F1 driver/I'm a Lady make:!:

 

[medhead]

. Also comparing his management of QF to the management of the Irish economy and in a particularly derogative way.

Surprised that no one has mentioned it yet; but the Irish have found an extra 3.4 billion, or so the paper tells me today. Overly conservative financial management - that's gotta be a good thing. :?: Maybe QFi will find an extra few $$$$.

 

[Vinny]

An amazing per centage claim themselves of Irish ancestry. Myself include and am quite happy to do so.

A number of posters have referred to ' the leprechaun ' and various spellings of it. This to me is unacceptable.

Yes there are issues with QF management but remember that the board as far as I know is made up of Australian citizens, including the CEO.

Racists please find a one nation message board.

 

[tuapekastar]

Reluctant to to dip my toes into the dangerous waters of this thread, but here goes (yikes, it's cold!).

I'm not remotely concerned about AJ's country-of-origin. I don't think he comes across all that well (his accent does have "Qantas" coming out a little oddly - seriously, listen, it's Qantazzz), but that has no bearing on his abilities to be CEO of an airline, nor any reflection on his nous.

There is a real difference between saying "I don't like Alan Joyce, oh, and he is Irish" and "I don't like Alan Joyce because he is Irish". One statement is racist (well, national background-ish at least) and one is not.

I'm not one to use the Irish/leprechaun/short person stuff (I did correct the spelling of leprechaun at one stage ) but I do not think what I have read on this forum is generally racist. Offensive maybe. Infantile maybe. Unnecessarily vitriolic maybe. But (generally) not racist. Not to say one or two have not stepped over the line, but I think members of AFF are in the main pretty good in keeping things respectable.