Increased aviation security at Australian airports

[pauly7]

Flew Mel -Syd -Mel yesterday took probably an extra 30-40 mins as was flying in peak.
One strange (?) thing to note as another member has posted, VA on the way up were weighing hand luggage at the gate and taking people out of the line who were over to the service desk. No security personnel I could easily identify there but they were charging people / tagging some to go as checked.
QF on way back weren't weighing. So a bit odd. I've had my hand luggage weighed a few times on VA but never at the gate.

 

[GDSman]

Are there more people than usual there early? We normally arrive between 90-120mins early anyway due to Airport undercover parking rules. It is normally very quiet with limited staff.

Not that I noticed. I got to HBA about 0510 for a 0610 flight, which is about 15 mins earlier than I normally arrive. All pax being tested for explosives and I was perhaps 8th in queue. Decent line at QF checkin so my guess is that most people didn't alter their plans.

 

[ChrisFlyer]

Flew Mel -Syd -Mel yesterday took probably an extra 30-40 mins as was flying in peak.
One strange (?) thing to note as another member has posted, VA on the way up were weighing hand luggage at the gate and taking people out of the line who were over to the service desk. No security personnel I could easily identify there but they were charging people / tagging some to go as checked.
QF on way back weren't weighing. So a bit odd. I've had my hand luggage weighed a few times on VA but never at the gate.

I've seen VA doing this in Brisbane long before these security issues came up. It really screams 'low cost carrier' when their carry-on allowance is already half as much as Qantas (2 bags max 7kg total for VA vs 2x7kg with QF), but that they actually enforce it - do they honestly expect regular travellers to start checking in their cabin baggage, which goes onto the same aircraft anyway..? If people wanted to do that, they'd fly Jetstar!

 

[fairbasa]

It is always disappointing to see the government throw out more paranoia and fear mongering.

While I don’t doubt that there is some level of risk and there are so called “terrorists” planning various things, the threat is often overblown with the government and media very quick to claim “terrorism” when something happens, even when it is clear an event is not.

Often, when something like this happens (ie, a “prevented plot”), the claimed plot was either never going to happen, or never going to work. Then when this happens, they step up “security” (which usually has no real impact on real security) while creating easier targets.

It seems there is always a “raid” or a series of arrests which leads to increased “security” whenever it is politically and/or diplomatically convenient.

I only hope that this round of paranoid fear mongering on the part of the government subsides and things return to normal within a few weeks.

You do realise authorities were acting on intelligence from trusted allies gathered in Syria? It was credible enough for the British to threaten posting a travel warning for Australia.

Not everything is related to politics.

 

[Denali]

Any travelers at Sydney or Melb airport today? Hows the queues?

 

[Melburnian1]

It is always disappointing to see the government throw out more paranoia and fear mongering.

While I don’t doubt that there is some level of risk and there are so called “terrorists” planning various things, the threat is often overblown with the government and media very quick to claim “terrorism” when something happens, even when it is clear an event is not.

Often, when something like this happens (ie, a “prevented plot”), the claimed plot was either never going to happen, or never going to work. Then when this happens, they step up “security” (which usually has no real impact on real security) while creating easier targets.

It seems there is always a “raid” or a series of arrests which leads to increased “security” whenever it is politically and/or diplomatically convenient.

I only hope that this round of paranoid fear mongering on the part of the government subsides and things return to normal within a few weeks.

Some AFFers seem to want to ignore what has occurred in Sydney and Melbourne within the last three years.

It's true that at times the response can be silly (ID checks, after all, unfortunately won't by themselves necessarily stop a 'lone wolf' who has no criminal record from boarding a flight) but in this case, the threat to aviation safety appears real and credible.

 

[Melburnian1]

Any travelers at Sydney or Melb airport today? Hows the queues?

Denali, apart from fog in CBR having descended and flights being delayed into that airport - or diverted if the fog continues much longer- there do not appear to be many untoward delays on Tuesday 1 August's morning. However that doesn't quite answer your question.

 

[mikewsmith]

Good to have some updates, anyone been through Melb Domestic for the 6am's this morning or Sydney International? (I'll post mine when I get through tomorrow)

 

[Tassieoptom]

I agree absolutely, I will do the same with my short trip HBA MEL return this weekend.

Good to have some updates, anyone been through Melb Domestic for the 6am's this morning or Sydney International? (I'll post mine when I get through tomorrow)

 

[esseeeayeenn]

A couple of points arising from recent news articles and various posts, which are too numerous to quote.

First, it is possible to be cynical about this government's exploitation of fear of terrorism without denying that some real terrorist threats exist.
In fact the reality of those threats makes the manipulation of public fear of them even more reprehensible.
However I agree that we should not allow our suspicion of the government's motives to blind us to real threats to public safety.

Second, it has now emerged that after it received credible information from the intelligence services of trusted allies, our government didn't act swiftly.
It chose to sit back and collect more evidence to build a case against the suspects rather than act immediately to protect public safety.
It was only after the British government threatened to issue a public security alert about air travel in Australia that our government was forced to act.
Frankly, this terrifies me because of what it implies about our government's priorities and motives and the danger they might put us all in.

 

[fairbasa]

None of us are in a position to know all the information and the reasons why Police and Intelligence acted as they did. I trust they acted in our best interest and weighed the risk of the act being committed with the need to try and gather sufficient evidence to secure a conviction and catch all conspirators. In this case, they were forced to act probably earlier than they would have liked because of the threat posed.

Of course that doesn't mean we can't question our authorities, but where intelligence is involved it's extremely difficult to do so accurately because VERY little will ever be made public. As boring as it may sound - the government can't and don't control every little action of Police and our other agencies for their own political benefit.

 

[mikewsmith]

an update from a mate HBA for the 6am this morning
5 minutes to get through security at 5 am...
They were explosive testing everyone, doing random bag checks after security, and I believe doing random checked luggage checks

 

[RooFlyer]

<snip>
Second, it has now emerged that after it received credible information from the intelligence services of trusted allies, our government didn't act swiftly.
It chose to sit back and collect more evidence to build a case against the suspects rather than act immediately to protect public safety.
It was only after the British government threatened to issue a public security alert about air travel in Australia that our government was forced to act.
Frankly, this terrifies me because of what it implies about our government's priorities and motives and the danger they might put us all in.

I don't think that's fair. This, as with any police operation where they believe a crime is being planned, involved a balance between delaying and getting more and more evidence which they hope will enable a cleaner conviction, or going early and risk that a judge or jury will find the suspects not guilty and they are released into the community. At the end of the day, as long as crime-planners (in general) are apprehended before they commit their crime, its not a bad result, is it? Who would envy those who have to make the call as to when to 'go in' ?

And I honestly don't think it says anything about 'the government's' priority and motives - do you really think any Commissioner of Police would take directives from a Minister about when they make a raid?

 

[Himeno]

Of course that doesn't mean we can't question our authorities, but where intelligence is involved it's extremely difficult to do so accurately because VERY little will ever be made public. As boring as it may sound - the government can't and don't control every little action of Police and our other agencies for their own political benefit.

They can control the public release of information about such threats/arrests and the following reaction.
In this case, it appears that if the AU Government didn't act publicly, the UK Government would.

There is a difference between making any necessary arrests and nothing more, saying "there was a threat, it has been prevented, carry on as normal" and turning the whole thing into a big show and increasing "security" in a way that ultimately does nothing more then increase the paranoia level and creating easier targets while doing nothing of any real use.

Liquid limits were put in place as a direct result of a "plot" that never got into operational planning and was not physical possible even it it had be tried.
Body scanners, which don't work, are easily bypassed and have excessively high false positive scans, were rolled out as a direct result of an attempt which didn't work whose perpetrator was known to authorities, had been warned about by family members, didn't have a visa and was still let on the flight anyway.
Shoes are required to come off at checkpoints in many parts of the world as a direct result of an attempt which also didn't work whose perpetrator was again known to authorities and had been stopped and turned away at the checkpoint. Where upon he returned the next day and was guided around the screening.

There is also the US government making threats about "do this at screening, or we'll ban large electronics on flights to/from US".

While there is some level of threat, such threat is often overblown by authorities. Even though authorities can't (always) control such actions, they can and do control the response to said actions. Such response is usually unwarranted and often far more damaging then the thing they prevented would have been.

 

[Pushka]

Given that the Brits are very conservative, if they said Act then I'd listen.

 

[marki]

A friend posted this on Facebook this morning - she was flying to Tassie - I think the photo was between 7 and 8am Melbourne

Interesting my flight was 12:40 later that day and there was maybe 10% of what you see here. Was ticketed to Karratha so in true Fashionista style ( sic) red shorts and short sleeved shirt white blue .... definitely standing out in the Fashion capital!!!

 

[esseeeayeenn]

I don't think that's fair. This, as with any police operation where they believe a crime is being planned, involved a balance between delaying and getting more and more evidence which they hope will enable a cleaner conviction, or going early and risk that a judge or jury will find the suspects not guilty and they are released into the community. At the end of the day, as long as crime-planners (in general) are apprehended before they commit their crime, its not a bad result, is it? Who would envy those who have to make the call as to when to 'go in' ?

And I honestly don't think it says anything about 'the government's' priority and motives - do you really think any Commissioner of Police would take directives from a Minister about when they make a raid?

First, you can't compare this to any other police operation because they have special powers in relation to suspected terrorism.
Such as warrantless searches, preventative detention, detention without charge, extended detention for interrogation, waiving the right to silence, etc.
These special powers were granted on the basis that they would allow police to act to protect the public without having to wait until they had enough evidence to get a warrant or a conviction.
If they don't acheive that then the infringement of civil liberties can't be justified and the special powers should be revoked.
Second, they seem to have got the balance so wrong that Britain threatened to publicly embarrass them. Not something an ally would do lightly.

 

[Happy Trails]

Meanwhile in the UK...

[FONT=&amp]A man who tried to smuggle a pipe bomb on to a flight from Manchester to Italy was able to board another plane two days later, a court heard.

[/FONT][FONT=&amp]Nadeem Muhammad, 43, was searched as he attempted to board a flight to Bergamo on 30 January. Security officers found the device, made from batteries, tape, a marker pen and pins, in the zip lining of a small green suitcase he was carrying.
[/FONT]
[FONT=&amp]Muhammad was questioned by police and said the device could have been put into his bag by somebody else, possibly his wife.
[/FONT]
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...port-let-plane-two-days-later-nadeem-muhammad

 

[Melburnian1]

...Frankly, this terrifies me because of what it implies about our government's priorities and motives and the danger they might put us all in.

What concerns me far more is the number of left wingers in countries like Australia and Canada who try to shout conservative governments down every time the latter try to protect us.

We have a huge problem in Australia with one group of people, yet many won't admit it.

 

[drron]

Though the Government did act on the information it received-all reports say security at SYD was upgraded on Thursday-fair enough as the ? bomb was in Sydney and they were now under surveillance.The UK obviously thought it wasn't enough.