"Hopping off the Kangaroo Route?"

[SteveJohnson]

"New airlines, new hubs and changing travel habits mean the London-via-Singapore route is no longer the only way to fly."

Hopping off the Kangaroo Route?

 

[harvyk]

It's been that way for a very long time... Whilst SIN has traditionally been the stopover point between here and Europe, it's hardly been the only stop over point, and QF has hardly had a monopoly on that route since virtually day 1.

Yes we're seen a stronger push by other airlines, but realistically, for any airline to start operating a "kangaroo route", all they need to do is to operate flights out of a central point to both Australia and Europe going typically over Asia \ the middle east, and there are already many airlines which do exactly that, and have done for many years prior.

 

[clifford]

"New airlines, new hubs and changing travel habits mean the London-via-Singapore route is no longer the only way to fly."

Hopping off the Kangaroo Route?

And a good thing too. Anyone who flies SYD-LON in 2 hops in economy class must have either a very strong constitution or extreme will power.

I couldn't even contemplate it, preferring to fly to Europe with at least 2 stops, and no flights more than 8 hours (eg SYD-SIN-DXB-LON). A much more civilised and less tiring way to fly. It also helps if you have membership priviliges in the business class lounges.

 

[dajop]

I couldn't even contemplate it, preferring to fly to Europe with at least 2 stops, and no flights more than 8 hours (eg SYD-SIN-DXB-LON). A much more civilised and less tiring way to fly. It also helps if you have membership priviliges in the business class lounges.

Actually I find well timed long flights not at all that bad in Y. I haven't done it all the way from Australia in one hit, but vastly prefer SIN-Europe daytime flights over the midnight departures and if I was do it from Australia I'd suggest Australia-Asia using morning or afternoon departure, overnight in Asia and catch morning or afternoon flight to Europe next day. Very civilised. Something that the red roo doesn't offer any more.

 

[casanovawa]

Don't think I will be hurrying to catch any Chinese airline flights to Europe... Have to be very cheap and i'm sure there are still other airlines that will be close to whatever they can offer...

But yes, more competition can be a wonderful thing even if your not planning to use the alternatives...

 

[markis10]

Yawn Yawn again, a journalist in Melbourne writes an article on the great service he received as a China Southern guest and all of a sudden every man and his travel blogs are saying China is the way to Europe, completely overlooking the trend of the last few years which QF warned about in 2009:

For some months now, traffic between Europe and Southwest Pacific (Australia and New Zealand) has been one of, or the, worst performing markets in IATA's premium traffic monitor. While this market, which recognises only through services between the two continents (and so not connecting flight options), has been impacted by the reduction in service frequency by British Airways and Qantas in late Mar-2012, the traffic decline occurred well before then.
There has been some movement since Mar-2012, when Europe-Southwest Pacific showed the highest year-on-year loss of traffic (24%). Meanwhile Middle East-Southwest Pacific had the third highest growth (21%). Premium traffic between Europe and Southwest Pacific in Apr-2012 continues to record the highest loss (13.5%) while Middle East-Southwest Pacific recorded strong growth (13.3%).

Yet strangely with China Southern, reality has not lived up to the hype many have mentioned some time before the johnny come lately's got on the china bus:

China Southern has taken the most aggressive expansion plan of the mainland carriers in Australia/New Zealand, wanting to have 55 weekly round-trips by 2015. Its big push came last year, but may have been too early as the carrier had to offer rock-bottom fares and, even then, make larger off-season capacity cutbacks than anticipated.
China Southern planned to operate 10 weekly flights between Guangzhou and Melbourne over northern summer 2012, after operating 14 weekly services during northern winter 2011, the peak travelling period in the region.
Instead the carrier dropped to a daily offering. Notably, the services that did not proceed as planned were daylight flights from Melbourne that connected to the carrier's evening long-haul departures to Europe and North America.

Europe-Australia market changed forever as sixth freedom carriers gain scale and drop prices | CAPA - Centre for Aviation

China should not be ignored, but at present the real action is with the middle east according to the figures, not the hype.

 

[Paddy55]

Actually I find well timed long flights not at all that bad in Y. I haven't done it all the way from Australia in one hit, but vastly prefer SIN-Europe daytime flights over the midnight departures and if I was do it from Australia I'd suggest Australia-Asia using morning or afternoon departure, overnight in Asia and catch morning or afternoon flight to Europe next day. Very civilised. Something that the red roo doesn't offer any more.

Many Australians grew up cutting their teeth on 14hr+ flights.

My first was on a Pan Am 747SP in 1979 - went to LAX non stop in 14hrs in whY, and much preferred that to the return Pan Am flight that went LAX-HNL-AKL-SYD.
I just prefer to 'get it over with' regardless of class of travel.
But that's me :shock:

 

[I hate Alan]

Many Australians grew up cutting their teeth on 14hr+ flights.

My first was on a Pan Am 747SP in 1979 - went to LAX non stop in 14hrs in whY, and much preferred that to the return Pan Am flight that went LAX-HNL-AKL-SYD.
I just prefer to 'get it over with' regardless of class of travel.
But that's me :shock:

Yep me too, the sooner the better.

 

[harvyk]

And a good thing too. Anyone who flies SYD-LON in 2 hops in economy class must have either a very strong constitution or extreme will power.

Don't get me wrong, I love it when I fly the higher classes, that said there is almost a badge of honour associated with long hauls in Y which you miss out on in the higher classes... An "I survived" T-Shirt would not be inappropriate...

 

[SteveJohnson]

And a good thing too. Anyone who flies SYD-LON in 2 hops in economy class must have either a very strong constitution or extreme will power.

Or maybe we don't have the luxury of choosing to fly in business? I have done SYD-LHR in economy without a stop-over quite a few times, sure I would much rather be in business class but my company doesn't allow business class unless you're at the top rung of the corporate ladder and for my own holidays I would rather put that extra money towards a few extra days in London, because I have to face the sad reality of having a budget.

Anyway the 'secret' is just to knuckle down and accept it. Load up the iPad with some movies and TV shows, load up the iPod with a bunch of new music or rips of old albums you haven't heard for the longest time, grab a good book to give into and you're there before you know it!

 

[seanpodge]

Don't get me wrong, I love it when I fly the higher classes, that said there is almost a badge of honour associated with long hauls in Y which you miss out on in the higher classes... An "I survived" T-Shirt would not be inappropriate...

Indeed. Did a DUB-FRA-PRG-train to BUD-IST-PEK-HRB a couple of weeks back. Although the IST-PEK sector was in Y+ (at the same price as Y tickets, thanks TK!!! ) and I had lounge access. Still counts?

 

[seanpodge]

As for the premise of the thread, surely the fact that there are alternatives to SIN to get from Australia to London isn't news. The strange part to me is that there aren't more airlines in Asia offering this (along with Australia to Europe). For example MEL-ICN-LHR is only about 200-300 miles longer than via SIN, but KE doesn't even have daily service to MEL (OZ sadly doesn't go there at all). The fact that the flights are almost equidistant would attract some, I think (although it may deter others).

India is also a good mid point (slightly shorter than SIN/BKK/KUL) but there are obviously other issues with their aviation industry that prevent them from taking advantage of geography. I don't see the Chinese airlines fluffing their chances and I'd expect CA, MU and CZ to all take a healthy share of the "Kangaroo" route and the AUS-Europe traffic in the near future.

 

[JohnK]

No great desire to transit via China and certainly no desire to transit via the Middle East when going to Europe.

Well that only leaves me with SE Asia as a viable transit port and as long as some airline offers that connection they will have my business. A stopover in Thailand would also be preferable but not mandatory.

 

[wandering_fred]

Well if UL ever returns to SYD/MEL and finishes joining OW there will be another alternative.

gcmap says
SYD-SIN-LHR is 10672
SYD-CMB-LHR is 10661 with almost two equal length legs. As well UL does fly to more than LHR and FRA...

Then again SYD-JNB-LHR is only an extra 1800 miles or so.

Happy wandering

Fred

 

[JohnK]

As well UL does fly to more than LHR and FRA...

They also fly to HKG, BKK, KUL and SIN in SE Asia.

Then again SYD-JNB-LHR is only an extra 1800 miles or so.

That would be a good transit but one of the legs is extremely long at 13-14 hours.

 

[TonyHancock]

That would be a good transit but one of the legs is extremely long at 13-14 hours.

Not sure I understand where you are coming from on that one. SIN-LHR is 13+ hours, and MEL-AUH is about the same. (If not longer.)

Isn't the bigger issue that LHR-JNB is about 11 hours? That means two long flights, instead of one long and one much shorter on The Kangaroo route.

 

[JohnK]

Not sure I understand where you are coming from on that one. SIN-LHR is 13+ hours, and MEL-AUH is about the same. (If not longer.)

Really? I thought it was only ~11 hours. From memory SIN/BKK/HKG-LHR is nowhere near as excruciating as SYD-LAX.

Isn't the bigger issue that LHR-JNB is about 11 hours? That means two long flights, instead of one long and one much shorter on The Kangaroo route.

It will be much simpler when transporters are able to be mass produced cost effectively.