Gloves Come Off - JQHK

[yohy?!]

Qantas at IATA, Joyce about to get 'annihilation' message | Plane Talking

if against the administrative odds, it [QF] gets permission for Jetstar Hong Kong to begin operations next year, that airline group will set up an operation in Australia, as Australian law allows, and Hong Kong would insist upon exercising, that will destroy Qantas and Jetstar.

I wonder who that 'airline group' could possibly be?

PS A little irony in the thread title from HK TV: http://b.tvb.com/tvbi/2012/04/02/new-drama-gloves-come-off/

 

[Mal]

Plane rumour and innuendo IMHO.

In particular:

Joyce’s problems include saying foolish things that the Australian media tends to sanitise and forgive, but which the managements of certain Asian carriers and the relevant sovereign authorities note down and do not forgive.

Huh?

Sandilands has lost the plot. His bias and dreaming continues unabated.

 

[samh004]

As much as I'd hate to see Qantas fall, I'm totally behind Cathay Pacific coming to Australia and giving them a good dressing down. They might even end up the new Qantas, if it proves profitable for them. Either way, looking forward to the showdown.




 

[yohy?!]

Plane rumour and innuendo IMHO.

In particular:


Huh?

Sandilands has lost the plot. His bias and dreaming continues unabated.

I do find it far-fetched and over-dramatised but also highly plausible. CX has made public overtures to blocking the venture in the press here, if QF can get round the regulator (Which with MU on their side seems highly likely) the next plausible move would be to bury them in a fare-war.

<Edit> That's assuming it's CX and not HNA that's making the threats - HNA have a lot more to lose given the fragility of their HK operations and the amount of money they've sunk trying to establish a foothold in the market...

 

[yohy?!]

SMH weighs in IATA conference Beijing

 

[thewinchester]

There's one key fact people, including all the so-called analysts and journalists seem to forget about QF Group:

Results for the Full Year ended 30 June 2011

• Cash balance of $3.5 billion

and...

Results for the half year ended 31 December 2011

• Cash balance of $3.3 billion

Let's just restate that in case it hasn't sunk in: QF Group had cash reserves of AUD 3.3 Billion under their belt at the end of 2H 2011, and spent only AUD 200 Million in six months from their last reporting date. Qantas isn't going anywhere despite what the naysayers and gloomy gus's might suggest.

There's more than enough cash in their back pocket to weather the current storms, and see Joyce's 2014 vision through to completion that will hopefully put the carrier in a much better place.

And if it doesn't they just hire a new CEO, use the at least AUD 2.5 Billion in cash reserves they still have, and have a second crack at it, or a third or a fourth before the balance sheet makes real investors with a clue nervous.

No story here, move on.

 

[markis10]

There's one key fact people, including all the so-called analysts and journalists seem to forget about QF Group:



and...



Let's just restate that in case it hasn't sunk in: QF Group had cash reserves of AUD 3.3 Billion under their belt at the end of 2H 2011, and spent only AUD 200 Million in six months from their last reporting date. Qantas isn't going anywhere despite what the naysayers and gloomy gus's might suggest.

There's more than enough cash in their back pocket to weather the current storms, and see Joyce's 2014 vision through to completion that will hopefully put the carrier in a much better place.

And if it doesn't they just hire a new CEO, use the at least AUD 2.5 Billion in cash reserves they still have, and have a second crack at it, or a third or a fourth before the balance sheet makes real investors with a clue nervous.

No story here, move on.

LOL, blinkers on there a tad, did you miss this part of the balance sheet that might be a tad sensitive to the QF credit rating from S&P at refinance time: As at 30 June 2011, the Qantas Group debt portfolio totalled $6.0 billion. It comprised an unsecured bank loan which matures in two tranches between April 2014 and April 2015, two unsecured 144A bonds that mature in 2012/13 and 2015/16 and a series of longer term debt and lease facilities secured by aircraft which generally amortise over 10 to 20 years. The Qantas Group has a range of off balance sheetoperating leases with a debt-equivalent value estimated to be $4.0 billion as at 30 June 2011. These operating leases expire progressively over the next 11 years.

 

[yohy?!]

"gloomy gus's" <like>

 

[eastwest101]

Lots of speculation there - but would be interesting to see if Singapore or Cathay wanted to set up shop in a domestic Aust operation and teach QF a lesson in airline economics. Remote - but not inconveivable!

 

[thewinchester]

LOL, blinkers on there a tad, did you miss this part of the balance sheet that might be a tad sensitive to the QF credit rating from S&P at refinance time:

As at 30 June 2011, the Qantas Group debt portfolio totalled $6.0 billion. It comprised an unsecured bank loan which matures in two tranches between April 2014 and April 2015, two unsecured 144A bonds that mature in 2012/13 and 2015/16 and a series of longer term debt and lease facilities secured by aircraft which generally amortise over 10 to 20 years. The Qantas Group has a range of off balance sheetoperating leases with a debt-equivalent value estimated to be $4.0 billion as at 30 June 2011. These operating leases expire progressively over the next 11 years.

No blinkers here. QF Group would have built the debt/lease repayment costs into their forward operating expenditure long ago like any good business would.

And on the CX issue, QF Group has AUD 1.1 Billion more in their war chest compared to CX; a carrier which also experienced a 60% drop in profit, 59% drop in earnings per share, and 45% reduction in dividends per share in 2H 2011.

I dare say that QF is more than prepared financially to fight any attack CX may wish to mount against QF group should the JQ brand pop up at HKG. If it's prepared logistically or mentally is another question altogether.

 

[drron]

But there are more assets than just the cash on hand.Still more assets than liabilities there.
[TABLE="class: key_stat_data alt_rows_stat_table"]
[TR="class: indentation_0 odd"]
[TH]Period End Date[/TH]
[TD]12/31/2011[/TD]
[TD]6/30/2011[/TD]
[TD]12/31/2010[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]6/30/2010[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_0 even"]
[TH="class: last, colspan: 5"] Assets [/TH]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_1 odd"]
[TH]+ Cash & Near Cash Items[/TH]
[TD]3,342.00[/TD]
[TD]3,496.00[/TD]
[TD]3,337.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]3,704.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_1 even"]
[TH]+ Short-Term Investments[/TH]
[TD]0.00[/TD]
[TD]0.00[/TD]
[TD]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]0.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_1 odd"]
[TH]+ Accounts & Notes Receivable[/TH]
[TD]1,006.00[/TD]
[TD]839.00[/TD]
[TD]1,145.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]817.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_1 even"]
[TH]+ Inventories[/TH]
[TD]394.00[/TD]
[TD]372.00[/TD]
[TD]380.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]319.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_1 odd"]
[TH]+ Other Current Assets[/TH]
[TD]656.00[/TD]
[TD]934.00[/TD]
[TD]760.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]992.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_0 even"]
[TH] Total Current Assets[/TH]
[TD]5,398.00[/TD]
[TD]5,641.00[/TD]
[TD]5,622.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]5,832.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_1 odd"]
[TH]+ LT Investments & LT Receivables[/TH]
[TD]0.00[/TD]
[TD]0.00[/TD]
[TD]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]3.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_1 even"]
[TH]+ Net Fixed Assets[/TH]
[TD]14,364.00[/TD]
[TD]13,652.00[/TD]
[TD]12,932.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]12,516.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_1 odd"]
[TH]+ Other Long-Term Assets[/TH]
[TD]1,620.00[/TD]
[TD]1,565.00[/TD]
[TD]1,501.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]1,559.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_0 even"]
[TH] Total Long-Term Assets[/TH]
[TD]15,984.00[/TD]
[TD]15,217.00[/TD]
[TD]14,433.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]14,078.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_0 odd"]
[TH] Total Assets[/TH]
[TD]21,382.00[/TD]
[TD]20,858.00[/TD]
[TD]20,055.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]19,910.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_0 even"]
[TH="class: last, colspan: 5"] Liabilities & Shareholders' Equity [/TH]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_1 odd"]
[TH]+ Accounts Payable[/TH]
[TD]1,860.00[/TD]
[TD]597.00[/TD]
[TD]1,766.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]600.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_1 even"]
[TH]+ Short-Term Borrowings[/TH]
[TD]654.00[/TD]
[TD]577.00[/TD]
[TD]540.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]619.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_1 odd"]
[TH]+ Other Short-Term Liabilities[/TH]
[TD]3,621.00[/TD]
[TD]5,061.00[/TD]
[TD]3,916.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]5,022.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_0 even"]
[TH] Total Current Liabilities[/TH]
[TD]6,135.00[/TD]
[TD]6,235.00[/TD]
[TD]6,222.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]6,241.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_1 odd"]
[TH]+ Long-Term Borrowings[/TH]
[TD]6,064.00[/TD]
[TD]5,454.00[/TD]
[TD]4,989.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]5,099.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_1 even"]
[TH]+ Other Long-Term Liabilities[/TH]
[TD]2,995.00[/TD]
[TD]3,018.00[/TD]
[TD]2,814.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]2,589.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_0 odd"]
[TH] Total Long-Term Liabilities[/TH]
[TD]9,059.00[/TD]
[TD]8,472.00[/TD]
[TD]7,803.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]7,688.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_0 even"]
[TH] Total Liabilities[/TH]
[TD]15,194.00[/TD]
[TD]14,707.00[/TD]
[TD]14,025.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]13,929.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_1 odd"]
[TH]+ Total Preferred Equity[/TH]
[TD]0.00[/TD]
[TD]0.00[/TD]
[TD]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]0.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_1 even"]
[TH]+ Minority Interest[/TH]
[TD]4.00[/TD]
[TD]4.00[/TD]
[TD]3.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]42.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_1 odd"]
[TH]+ Share Capital & APIC[/TH]
[TD]4,729.00[/TD]
[TD]4,729.00[/TD]
[TD]4,729.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]4,729.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_1 even"]
[TH]+ Retained Earnings & Other Equity[/TH]
[TD]1,455.00[/TD]
[TD]1,418.00[/TD]
[TD]1,298.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]1,210.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_0 odd"]
[TH] Total Equity[/TH]
[TD]6,188.00[/TD]
[TD]6,151.00[/TD]
[TD]6,030.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]5,981.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_0 even"]
[TH] Total Liabilities & Equity[/TH]
[TD]21,382.00[/TD]
[TD]20,858.00[/TD]
[TD]20,055.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]19,910.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[yohy?!]

And on the CX issue, QF Group has AUD 1.1 Billion more in their war chest compared to CX; a carrier which also experienced a 60% drop in profit, 59% drop in earnings per share, and 45% reduction in dividends per share in 2H 2011.

Interesting twist on those figures - the drop in profit was from a record high in 2010 (1.8billionUSD profit) and hardly indicative of their trend performance.

QF would kill to have CX's profitability. Don't discount who's in bed with them also (Air China et al).

Also from looking at the CX 2011 Annual Report it seems they have around 1.2bilUSD in hand also.

 

[markis10]

But there are more assets than just the cash on hand.Still more assets than liabilities there.
[TABLE="class: key_stat_data alt_rows_stat_table"]
[TR="class: indentation_0 odd"]
[TH]Period End Date[/TH]
[TD]12/31/2011[/TD]
[TD]6/30/2011[/TD]
[TD]12/31/2010[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]6/30/2010[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_0 even"]
[TH="class: last, colspan: 5"] Assets[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_1 odd"]
[TH]+ Cash & Near Cash Items[/TH]
[TD]3,342.00[/TD]
[TD]3,496.00[/TD]
[TD]3,337.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]3,704.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_1 even"]
[TH]+ Short-Term Investments[/TH]
[TD]0.00[/TD]
[TD]0.00[/TD]
[TD]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]0.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_1 odd"]
[TH]+ Accounts & Notes Receivable[/TH]
[TD]1,006.00[/TD]
[TD]839.00[/TD]
[TD]1,145.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]817.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_1 even"]
[TH]+ Inventories[/TH]
[TD]394.00[/TD]
[TD]372.00[/TD]
[TD]380.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]319.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_1 odd"]
[TH]+ Other Current Assets[/TH]
[TD]656.00[/TD]
[TD]934.00[/TD]
[TD]760.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]992.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_0 even"]
[TH] Total Current Assets[/TH]
[TD]5,398.00[/TD]
[TD]5,641.00[/TD]
[TD]5,622.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]5,832.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_1 odd"]
[TH]+ LT Investments & LT Receivables[/TH]
[TD]0.00[/TD]
[TD]0.00[/TD]
[TD]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]3.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_1 even"]
[TH]+ Net Fixed Assets[/TH]
[TD]14,364.00[/TD]
[TD]13,652.00[/TD]
[TD]12,932.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]12,516.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_1 odd"]
[TH]+ Other Long-Term Assets[/TH]
[TD]1,620.00[/TD]
[TD]1,565.00[/TD]
[TD]1,501.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]1,559.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_0 even"]
[TH] Total Long-Term Assets[/TH]
[TD]15,984.00[/TD]
[TD]15,217.00[/TD]
[TD]14,433.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]14,078.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_0 odd"]
[TH] Total Assets[/TH]
[TD]21,382.00[/TD]
[TD]20,858.00[/TD]
[TD]20,055.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]19,910.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_0 even"]
[TH="class: last, colspan: 5"] Liabilities & Shareholders' Equity[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_1 odd"]
[TH]+ Accounts Payable[/TH]
[TD]1,860.00[/TD]
[TD]597.00[/TD]
[TD]1,766.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]600.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_1 even"]
[TH]+ Short-Term Borrowings[/TH]
[TD]654.00[/TD]
[TD]577.00[/TD]
[TD]540.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]619.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_1 odd"]
[TH]+ Other Short-Term Liabilities[/TH]
[TD]3,621.00[/TD]
[TD]5,061.00[/TD]
[TD]3,916.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]5,022.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_0 even"]
[TH] Total Current Liabilities[/TH]
[TD]6,135.00[/TD]
[TD]6,235.00[/TD]
[TD]6,222.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]6,241.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_1 odd"]
[TH]+ Long-Term Borrowings[/TH]
[TD]6,064.00[/TD]
[TD]5,454.00[/TD]
[TD]4,989.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]5,099.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_1 even"]
[TH]+ Other Long-Term Liabilities[/TH]
[TD]2,995.00[/TD]
[TD]3,018.00[/TD]
[TD]2,814.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]2,589.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_0 odd"]
[TH] Total Long-Term Liabilities[/TH]
[TD]9,059.00[/TD]
[TD]8,472.00[/TD]
[TD]7,803.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]7,688.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_0 even"]
[TH] Total Liabilities[/TH]
[TD]15,194.00[/TD]
[TD]14,707.00[/TD]
[TD]14,025.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]13,929.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_1 odd"]
[TH]+ Total Preferred Equity[/TH]
[TD]0.00[/TD]
[TD]0.00[/TD]
[TD]0.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]0.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_1 even"]
[TH]+ Minority Interest[/TH]
[TD]4.00[/TD]
[TD]4.00[/TD]
[TD]3.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]42.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_1 odd"]
[TH]+ Share Capital & APIC[/TH]
[TD]4,729.00[/TD]
[TD]4,729.00[/TD]
[TD]4,729.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]4,729.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_1 even"]
[TH]+ Retained Earnings & Other Equity[/TH]
[TD]1,455.00[/TD]
[TD]1,418.00[/TD]
[TD]1,298.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]1,210.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_0 odd"]
[TH] Total Equity[/TH]
[TD]6,188.00[/TD]
[TD]6,151.00[/TD]
[TD]6,030.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]5,981.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR="class: indentation_0 even"]
[TH] Total Liabilities & Equity[/TH]
[TD]21,382.00[/TD]
[TD]20,858.00[/TD]
[TD]20,055.00[/TD]
[TD="class: last"]19,910.00[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

$1.4B of equity is a bit different to thinking life's rosy with $3b cash, especially given the lease liability are off balance sheet that are double that equity in terms of total liability.

 

[drron]

$1.4B of equity is a bit different to thinking life's rosy with $3b cash, especially given the lease liability are off balance sheet that are double that equity in terms of total liability.

Retained earnings are 1.4B,total equity 6.1B.

 

[Foreigner]

Cathay will fight Jetstar HK

IATA conference Beijing

Cathay will fight Jetstar HK on its home turf.

 

[Isochronous]

Re: Cathay will fight Jetstar HK

IATA conference Beijing

Cathay will fighht Jetstar HK on its home turf.

Hardly a surprising statement

 

[Foreigner]

Hardly a surprising statement

Looking beyond the fight, I look forward to attractive fare deals.