France proposes ban on short domestic flights

coyote25

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The French Government has moved to ban short domestic flights for which alternative train travel would get you there in under 2.5 hours.


This is being done on the basis the the most fuel is used at take off and landing so for environmental reasons they believe that it is better to use alternative travel means to planes.

I’m not sure how many, if any, commercial plane trips have a rail alternative that is under 2.5 hours in Australia. Maybe Canberra to Sydney if we had a rail option between those two?

So if this started to become a new standard for countries I believe very limited impact for Australians except for travelling inside other countries. I know I preferred to catch the Eurostar train from London to Paris and that I recall was around 2.5 hours (but as an international trip would not impacted by this proposed rule).

Thoughts?
 

Pushka

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The French Government has moved to ban short domestic flights for which alternative train travel would get you there in under 2.5 hours.


This is being done on the basis the the most fuel is used at take off and landing so for environmental reasons they believe that it is better to use alternative travel means to planes.

I’m not sure how many, if any, commercial plane trips have a rail alternative that is under 2.5 hours in Australia. Maybe Canberra to Sydney if we had a rail option between those two?

So if this started to become a new standard for countries I believe very limited impact for Australians except for travelling inside other countries. I know I preferred to catch the Eurostar train from London to Paris and that I recall was around 2.5 hours (but as an international trip would not impacted by this proposed rule).

Thoughts?
Maybe not so much in SA. Our train network to anywhere distant is pathetic.
 

jamescara

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Maybe not so much in SA. Our train network to anywhere distant is pathetic.

We have a train network here? Who knew!

Aside from the fuel burn, you'd think time wise it would be on par. Has been a while since I've been in Europe, but the train is usually just as quick by the time you factor travel to/from and waiting inside the airport etc.
 

Daver6

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One thing that didn't make much sense. I read that it wouldn't apply for connecting flights. So does that mean the flight still goes ahead, but you can't just fly the short sector but ok if connecting so to an international flight?
 

MEL_Traveller

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One thing that didn't make much sense. I read that it wouldn't apply for connecting flights. So does that mean the flight still goes ahead, but you can't just fly the short sector but ok if connecting so to an international flight?

Correct.

Onemileatatime did an piece on this, they said only select flights to/from Orly airport are affected, not CDG.

Dunno though if that means anyone can fly from CDG, or you still need to prove a connection? If the idea is to save fuel, an empty plane vs full plane prolly wouldn't make much difference?
 

dajop

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And in an update, they'll no longer be able to use cars if they can walk the distance in under 3 hours.

But only for people who have vegetable based diets. For people who don't they must stay at home, due to excessive emissions in producing the fuel needed for walking.

 

Must...Fly!

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If I recall, this was originally proposed sometime last year. I am fully in favour of the concept (without seeing the details).

The reality is the government of France (and others) are being faced with making billions of Euros of "loans" to their flag carriers, to keep them alive. They also fund and provide significant investment the rail network and wider industry (to both the population's and commercial benefit).

Now, why should the government fund both, without trying to make efficiencies within transport networks? If the environmental benefits come with that as well, then so be it. There is nothing stopping carriers in Europe selling rail connections on a more broad, user-friendly and commercially beneficial basis than they currently do, other than the will. Including points and status accrual.

Obviously Europe is in a pretty unique position in this regard because of their excellent rail networks, so I can't see anything remotely similar occurring in Australia.
 

henrus

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I would love to see SYD-CBR banned and whilst you're at it BNE-HVB, basically routes that can be driven or by train less than 300km.

Whilst we're at it some of the other routes in QLD that are serviced by electric rail could also be taxed (to make train fares cheaper) and finally it should be illegal to book a BNE-OOL ticket:
Screen Shot 2021-04-15 at 8.00.05 pm.png
 

Daver6

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I would love to see SYD-CBR banned and whilst you're at it BNE-HVB, basically routes that can be driven or by train less than 300km.

Whilst we're at it some of the other routes in QLD that are serviced by electric rail could also be taxed (to make train fares cheaper) and finally it should be illegal to book a BNE-OOL ticket:
View attachment 245155

What if you want to fly from CBR to DFW. Pretty bad having to book something separate and probably add another day's travel in that scenario.
 

Must...Fly!

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SYD-CBR banned is silly. There is no realistic, high density, reliable alternative. Now, if there was an hourly high-speed rail service, sure...
Post automatically merged:

I would love to see SYD-CBR banned and whilst you're at it BNE-HVB, basically routes that can be driven or by train less than 300km.

Whilst we're at it some of the other routes in QLD that are serviced by electric rail could also be taxed (to make train fares cheaper) and finally it should be illegal to book a BNE-OOL ticket:
View attachment 245155
I mean, why shouldn't they sell it? Whoever is stupid enough to take it in this case...

Of course, it used to be a route on a Dash 8 many years ago :)
 

henrus

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What if you want to fly from CBR to DFW
mean, why shouldn't they sell it? Whoever is stupid enough to take it in this case...
So it's important to note that the ban is not on the specific flight however on tickets directly between city pairs. Air France will still be able to operate these routes however they can't sell tickets that are exclusively for travel on these short routes.
 

Daver6

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So it's important to note that the ban is not on the specific flight however on tickets directly between city pairs. Air France will still be able to operate these routes however they can't sell tickets that are exclusively for travel on these short routes.

That doesn't seem overly practical then though. I suspect for many flights there would be the required number of connecting pax to make a route viable. Also flying an aircraft half empty doesn't sound like a great use of resources either.
 

Franky

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That doesn't seem overly practical then though. I suspect for many flights there would be the required number of connecting pax to make a route viable. Also flying an aircraft half empty doesn't sound like a great use of resources either.
I guess they’ll work that out as travel ramps up....
 

jakeseven7

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I would love to see SYD-CBR banned and whilst you're at it BNE-HVB, basically routes that can be driven or by train less than 300km.

Whilst we're at it some of the other routes in QLD that are serviced by electric rail could also be taxed (to make train fares cheaper) and finally it should be illegal to book a BNE-OOL ticket:

LOL try driving through Sydney’s traffic disaster anytime apart from 4am to try and do business. Never going to happen.

Now if there was proper high speed rail...
 
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Vic

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I'm amazed by the suggest that this ban will result in planes flying half empty. Do people really think flight schedule won't be revised and reduced if passenger numbers decrease?

As for sydney canberra. Of course that should be banned. but only after a viable high speed alternative is put in place. Canberra train to the Western Sydney and/or mascot airports to CBD. and high speed means about 1 hour.

Before you jump me, just relax, this would require visionary, integrated transport policy. The trash running Australia are more interested in putting up fences around their fortress on the hill.
 

Eastwick20

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I would love to see SYD-CBR banned and whilst you're at it BNE-HVB, basically routes that can be driven or by train less than 300km.

Whilst we're at it some of the other routes in QLD that are serviced by electric rail could also be taxed (to make train fares cheaper) and finally it should be illegal to book a BNE-OOL ticket:
View attachment 245155

Geez you'd have to be pretty dumb to want to book a BNE- OOL by air...then again you do have those clueless tourists.. you know the ones who ask is there a road bridge between Australia and NZ I guess 😂😉
 

Vic

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Geez you'd have to be pretty dumb to want to book a BNE- OOL by air...then again you do have those clueless tourists.. you know the ones who ask is there a road bridge between Australia and NZ I guess 😂😉
or a former senator from Queensland...
 

Daver6

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I'm amazed by the suggest that this ban will result in planes flying half empty. Do people really think flight schedule won't be revised and reduced if passenger numbers decrease?

As for sydney canberra. Of course that should be banned. but only after a viable high speed alternative is put in place. Canberra train to the Western Sydney and/or mascot airports to CBD. and high speed means about 1 hour.

Before you jump me, just relax, this would require visionary, integrated transport policy. The trash running Australia are more interested in putting up fences around their fortress on the hill.

There would be obvious carbon emissions for building such infrastructure. I wonder how many years worth of no flights on this sector would be needed for break even on carbon emissions for such a change?
 

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