FlyDubai incident 30/9

[Quickstatus]

the electric motor driven pumps kick in.

But what provides power to the electric pump?
JB mentioned the windmilling engines and/or residual power in batteries?

 

[AviatorInsight]

But what provides power to the electric pump?
JB mentioned the windmilling engines and/or residual power in batteries?

Yes, you're right. My mistake, it was a late one yesterday. They are powered by the transfer bus not the standby AC power bus. So they will get some residual power from the generator with a windmilling engine if the N2 can be kept above a certain percentage.

 

[John82]

So of the yet to be proven allegations flying around are disturbing. Such as “the co-pilot intended to repeat 9-11 into some Israeli buildings.”

Apparently this came from the terrorist in interrogation.

 

[jb747]

Yes, you're right. My mistake, it was a late one yesterday. They are powered by the transfer bus not the standby AC power bus. So they will get some residual power from the generator with a windmilling engine if the N2 can be kept above a certain percentage.

Given the speed, wouldn't the engine driven pumps still be providing substantial pressure?

 

[AviatorInsight]

Given the speed, wouldn't the engine driven pumps still be providing substantial pressure?

I had to open up the flight simulator for this and yes, the EDP are still providing pressure, and therefore you still have hydraulic power. No manual reversion.

The N2 throughout the descent was still high. To do a windmill start the NG must be at minimum 11% N2 and 8.5% on the MAX.

 

[Quickstatus]

manual reversion.

Would recovery be possible if the controls manually reverted?

 

[AviatorInsight]

Would recovery be possible if the controls manually reverted?

With the aerodynamic loads at those speeds? I'd say impossible. A lot of muscle power is needed during manual reversion under normal flying segments let alone anything else.

 

[Quickstatus]

BlancoL said 3.08G in the pull out

I wonder what the elevators were trimmed at just prior when it was at cruise.

 

[jb747]

BlancoL said 3.08G in the pull out

I wonder what the elevators were trimmed at just prior when it was at cruise.

The elevators aren't moved to trim, but rather the entire stab. I get the feeling that it might still have been trimmed to 1G level flight, largely because if much nose down trim had been involved I doubt that you'd achieve much of a pull up at all. Rather like those MCAS events. I also get the feeling that the FO wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed, and didn't think though the setup at all.

 

[offshore171]

Two further FlyDubai pilots arrested in relation to this incident

Certainly makes you think twice about flying this airline.

Quote from the video:

"Whether FlyDubai even remains in business any more or not, three of their pilots get detained on the question of terrorist activity. I don't know how an airline survives that".

 

[Saab34]

Whether FlyDubai even remains in business any more or not, three of their pilots get detained on the question of terrorist activity. I don't know how an airline survives that"

Bit dramatic. Sure people will likely avoid including myself but close down? Unless passenger numbers somewhat all disappear that’s a bit of a stretch.

You bet there will be a shakeup in Flight Ops and Recruitment. Might become more western expat focused like EK, especially in Management.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

NDTV (Delhi) is reporting additional information, raising questions as to whether one or more members of the cabin crew may also have been part of the plot:

There are allegations that one or more of the crew may have attempted to loosen the restraints of the co-pilot, and tried to prevent passengers filming. Also reports of a ‘mysterious pill’ being given to the injured captain, and an attempt to have an all male crew working in the cabin.

 

[offshore171]

Unless passenger numbers somewhat all disappear that’s a bit of a stretch.

It's happened before. Some examples from google:


Notable Airlines That Collapsed Due to Lost Trust

• ValuJet Airlines: Following the horrific 1996 crash of ValuJet Flight 592 in the Everglades, investigations exposed systemic cost-cutting safety failures and unregulated maintenance outsourcing. Public confidence completely cratered, and its highest-paying customers refused to return. Facing severe financial ruin due to the toxic backlash, the company executed a corporate survival tactic by merging with a much smaller rival and rebranding entirely to AirTran Airways to shed its sketchy reputation.
• Pan American World Airways (Pan Am): Already financially fragile from deregulation, the iconic carrier suffered a terminal blow to its reputation after the 1988 Lockerbie bombing (Flight 103). The tragedy, combined with subsequent safety and security concerns from the traveling public, triggered a massive decline in international bookings. Travelers lost confidence in Pan Am's ability to guarantee security, starving the airline of the revenue it needed to survive before it folded in 1991.
• Flash Airlines: This Egyptian low-cost charter carrier operated under a cloud of controversy until Flash Airlines Flight 604 crashed into the Red Sea in 2004, killing 148 people. Surprise safety audits previously conducted by Swiss authorities had already led to a ban in Switzerland due to missing coughpit gear. Following the high-profile crash and the exposure of its atrocious safety culture, European tour operators pulled their contracts, and passenger trust vanished completely. The airline collapsed and went bankrupt just two months later.

 

[Quickstatus]

In recent times, MH has had 2 airframes lost - one to a missile and one to likely a rogue pilot.

It is still operating and profitable