Flight crews lash EU for failing to address pilot fatigue

[NM]

From ATW Daily News:

European flight crews are criticizing the EU for failing to tackle the issue of pilot fatigue, pointing out that the US has taken the lead on this perennial issue following the February crash a Colgan Air Q400 that killed 50.

 

[straitman]

Having spent some time in Hospital last week I was reminded that this is an issue that the medical profession needs to address also.

 

[docjames]

Having spent some time in Hospital last week I was reminded that this is an issue that the medical profession needs to address also.

True, but like pilots, Doctors dont just mysteriously appear out of thin air. There many years of training per individual to fill any position, many more years again to fill the more senior positions.

It is being addressed (medical student numbers are at record levels), but it is slow, as there's no other way (other than bringing doctors from other countries, which is good for Australia, but not for the countries that have lost them, usually countries that have an even greater need!)

Please dont get me started on this one - everyone agrees that more are needed, but it's not simple to achieve rapidly.

 

[straitman]

True, but like pilots, Doctors dont just mysteriously appear out of thin air. There many years of training per individual to fill any position, many more years again to fill the more senior positions.

It is being addressed (medical student numbers are at record levels), but it is slow, as there's no other way (other than bringing doctors from other countries, which is good for Australia, but not for the countries that have lost them, usually countries that have an even greater need!)

Please dont get me started on this one - everyone agrees that more are needed, but it's not simple to achieve rapidly.

I see Doctors as one issue and Nurses as a separate issue. I was actually referring to having Nurses rostered on afternoons and then back early next morning as a regular occurrence. That is ridiculous :!:

 

[docjames]

I see Doctors as one issue and Nurses as a separate issue. I was actually referring to having Nurses rostered on afternoons and then back early next morning as a regular occurrence. That is ridiculous :!:

Interesting you say that. Surveys at hospitals i've worked at show the nurses favour late/early and early/late than purely one or the other.

Of course the doctors dont get that choice.

 

[straitman]

Interesting you say that. Surveys at hospitals i've worked at show the nurses favour late/early and early/late than purely one or the other.

Of course the doctors dont get that choice.

I understand that may be the preference of individuals BUT the real issue is Fatigue Management which was obviously not being addressed satisfactorily.

How did I assess this:?: Purely by watching the performance drop of some really dedicated individuals as they proceeded through the second shift.
What do I really know about this:?: I have done considerable research on Fatigue Management and Threat and Error Management.

 

[docjames]

Agree with you straitman and I see it regularly - good performers suffering because of fatigue. The issue is that the solution requires a cultural shift which you will well know is difficult to achieve.

The other issue with roster change is if they force the staff into conditions they dont want, the turnover increases, sick leave increases etc etc which has arguably equal problems as fatigued staff (ie. less well trained, less experience, poor morale etc).

This is debated endlessly in medical literature, and noone has a solution, its the cultural shift that's going to take time.

But, at least it's being debated / improved. Twenty years ago, it wasnt even considered a problem. There is quite a crossover between medical and aviation rostering - and the aviation rostering (even by EK - 99hrs/month I wish!) is better by a huge margin.

 

[straitman]

Agree with you straitman and I see it regularly - good performers suffering because of fatigue. The issue is that the solution requires a cultural shift which you will well know is difficult to achieve.

The other issue with roster change is if they force the staff into conditions they dont want, the turnover increases, sick leave increases etc etc which has arguably equal problems as fatigued staff (ie. less well trained, less experience, poor morale etc).

This is debated endlessly in medical literature, and noone has a solution, its the cultural shift that's going to take time.

But, at least it's being debated / improved. Twenty years ago, it wasnt even considered a problem. There is quite a crossover between medical and aviation rostering - and the aviation rostering (even by EK - 99hrs/month I wish!) is better by a huge margin.

Absolutely.

Even the 'old' CAO48 which most operations are moving away from seem to be better than some of the Medical rostering.

Culture is sure an interesting phenomenon in itself and as you said can only ever be moved VERY slowly. A good Aviation example of that is CRM training in Aviation. In most cases the 'Old & Bold' who expound the virtues the most are generally the worst proponents of it.

 

[docjames]

In most cases the 'Old & Bold' who expound the virtues the most are generally the worst proponents of it.

As is often also the case in medicine! LOL.:shock:

 

[straitman]

As is often also the case in medicine! LOL.:shock:

Probably no real surprise either way :!: