F amenities - Open Access by J pax

[love_the_life]

Apologies for the potentially misleading thread title

I had witnessed on QF F the same thing on two other occasions but had refrained from mentioning to any FA ... until now .... as I thought the 'reasonable' thing is to ignore such matters and get on with life.

Others' experience adds up a compelling picture of repeated transgressions (well, not 'open slather' as yet).

The issue is whether Emerald City is now assuming to itself a new 'unpublished' benefit.

Some comments here are certainly alluding to the triviality of the matter as if smirking IS the answer.

BTW, my last J trip was in 12F as a WP and I didn't think twice to go to the back (and not to the front where I had been two months earlier). Simple !

Having the same thing happening on a number of flights does put it more in context. I think the bit I would have been most annoyed with was the attitude of the CSM. You probably would have been satisfied had the reply been an apology and the comment that they would look at the situation but it appears that this was pointedly not given. The poor response by QF when you contacted them would be even more annoying.

 

[Quickstatus]

You can't seriously equate government services with private industry travel.

Well it was in response to your statement "everything in life". I'm happy to via my taxes to look after the less well off. But when it's considered to be free then I'm less supportive.

I agree with you that the mentality of paying little and feeling entitled to much more probably gets reflected in the behaviour of many airline passengers. J pax using F loos, non priority pax using priority boarding, LCC pax paying LCC fares and demanding to be treated like non LCC pax

 

[Quickstatus]

Actually anybody who pays taxes contributes to their cost, therefore only the very rich and very poor don't contribute.

Well from the point of view of the J pax - they pay lots of money so they should be able to use F loos especially when the very rich F pax probably didn't pay for their ticket anyway and they deserve more than the very poor whom they the J pax are subsidising.

It's true that the majority of F pax didn't pay for an F ticket.

 

[legroom]

Spot on !

Corporate indifference being paraded as 'Customer Care Experience'

Having the same thing happening on a number of flights does put it more in context. I think the bit I would have been most annoyed with was the attitude of the CSM. You probably would have been satisfied had the reply been an apology and the comment that they would look at the situation but it appears that this was pointedly not given. The poor response by QF when you contacted them would be even more annoying.

Interesting concept indeed !

So now we have various subtypes in both F & J (fully paid, upgrade, award, VIP compliment) and each to his own to prescribe his (her) own 'rules' over and above published QF policy.

Is that what you are really advocating ?

Next we would have some fully flex J walking into F demanding to dislodge an award F pax ? Or, would that be the exclusive WP-only benefit ?

Well from the point of view of the J pax - they pay lots of money so they should be able to use F loos especially when the very rich F pax probably didn't pay for their ticket anyway and they deserve more than the very poor whom they the J pax are subsidising.

It's true that the majority of F pax didn't pay for an F ticket.

 

[Kangol]

I had witnessed on QF F the same thing on two other occasions but had refrained from mentioning to any FA ... until now .... as I thought the 'reasonable' thing is to ignore such matters and get on with life.

...

Some comments here are certainly alluding to the triviality of the matter as if smirking IS the answer.

Something to think about:

"If you see fraud and don’t shout fraud, you are a fraud”. Nassim Nicholas Taleb

 

[MEL_Traveller]

...LCC pax paying LCC fares and demanding to be treated like non LCC pax

i agree with that to an extent. I think LCC passengers get the service and amenities they pay for, but i believe LCC are entitled to the exact same consumer protection laws as any other carrier.

The LCC model is designed to maximise profits for the operator, but that should not excuse them from over stretching their fleet, or cancelling flights and stranding passengers without recourse. A contract is a contract. No one is forcing the LCC to charge $39 MEL-SYD.

in my opinion EU261 is right to cover LCCs as all other carriers.

 

[Kangol]

That is a risky move IMO transgressing into vigilante type action.

Not 'fit for purpose'

Many would jump up & down with issues of privacy (refer to Feet on Bulkhead photos).

I'd agree with your 'between the lines' sentiment.

The read between the lines part in brackets was for the whole post..

Are there privacy laws on an airplane whilst up in the air anyway? ie taking photos and whatnot...

 

[ashleyn]

I'm finding this thread quite entertaining but also a bit alien as I have never flown F (and quite unlikely to do so) and never paid for a full fare J either (and unlikely to do so). So when I fly J on awards or points upgrades, I feel sometimes like an impostor. I take whatever I get as a bonus and really take it in. I suppose if J or F was your base and if you actually paid for it, that would be a different matter altogether.

 

[JohnK]

The point is that had it been an "emergency" and you understood that you had "transgressed", one would ordinarily have a "I'm sorry" look when being gazed at by a F pax whom you had displaced.

The nonchalant appearance of entitlement suggested to me otherwise.

Entitlement? You are assuming they actually care. It is just a toilet.

We have had this debate many many times. I know for certain I don't care about someone's entitlement to a stinking toilet.

 

[legroom]

Yes and No

Strictly speaking you can go through life without becoming a meddling vigilante as you should / can not rectify everything at once.

I am yet to see anyone remonstrating with the gate agents on the issue of Priority Boarding, for example.

I am yet to see anyone writing down the names of such non-compliant gate agents to lodge a complaint.

Something to think about:

"If you see fraud and don’t shout fraud, you are a fraud”. Nassim Nicholas Taleb

 

[Quickstatus]

Yes and No

Strictly speaking you can go through life without becoming a meddling vigilante as you should / can not rectify everything at once.

I am yet to see anyone remonstrating with the gate agents on the issue of Priority Boarding, for example.

I am yet to see anyone writing down the names of such non-compliant gate agents to lodge a complaint.

partly this is because as a whole , Australians are a pragmatic and egalitarian bunch and this whole F. vs J vs W vs Y vs X is a bit alien to the Australian way. I guess that's why Aussies have that great term Which describes this properly and that's why P is preceded by W

 

[Princess Fiona]

This is my take on it.
Facilities including toilets are provided in each cabin for the passengers in that cabin to use. Except in cases of urgency, passengers should stick to using the facilities in their own cabin.
It's not acceptable for passengers in another cabin to freely use the facilities in a different cabin to wash, change, do yoga in etc.
The cabin crew should act upon information that passengers from other cabins are using facilities in a different cabin to that in which they are seated.

The fare class/frequent flyer status etc is not relevant to the entitlement of a passenger's access to and use of the facilities in their cabin or any other cabin.

If in doubt the KISS principle applies.

 

[legroom]

You can always start with AAaadvaantaage

I'm finding this thread quite entertaining but also a bit alien as I have never flown F (and quite unlikely to do so) and never paid for a full fare J either (and unlikely to do so). So when I fly J on awards or points upgrades, I feel sometimes like an impostor. I take whatever I get as a bonus and really take it in. I suppose if J or F was your base and if you actually paid for it, that would be a different matter altogether.

 

[VHOEJ]

Agree - I agree with the OP and had the same situation. Coming into the descent, everyone wanted to get changed and freshen up, there was me and 2 other P passengers waiting for the toilets...........and where did the passengers who left the toilets go? Up the stairs.........unless there is a medical emergency (or someone is just really sick), I don't know how it can be justified.

 

[legroom]

Sorry, I don't get that.

On every QF booking page for every (int) route, the options are clearly marked - with a price tag to match.

It is your conscious choice how to use your precious $$ and/or points but seeking to justify the unjustifiable on the imagined basis of "class warfare" is simply odd (and I am being judicious with word choice in case the mods are unhappy).

Are you really saying that we should have one price / one seating for the whole plane and there should be no seat allocation / preference (in case of class jealousy), just a stampede on the airbridge then ? That shall satisfy the utilitarian theory of "what the P, U, W, Y !" you seem to be pushing.

FWIW, most of us on this forum is fair dinkum Aussies !!!!

partly this is because as a whole , Australians are a pragmatic and egalitarian bunch and this whole F. vs J vs W vs Y vs X is a bit alien to the Australian way. I guess that's why Aussies have that great term Which describes this properly and that's why P is preceded by W

 

[BAM1748]

While seeing a Y passenger using my J toilet is not the end of the world, I do think that locked doors a'la Titanic style to separate out the classes is long over due.

I actually don't care if someone uses a different toilet, the world will keep turning and my 60 seconds of annoyance will be gone.


Matt

 

[Quickstatus]

Sorry, I don't get that.

On every QF booking page for every (int) route, the options are clearly marked - with a price tag to match.

It is your conscious choice how to use your precious $$ and/or points but seeking to justify the unjustifiable on the imagined basis of "class warfare" is simply odd (and I am being judicious with word choice in case the mods are unhappy).

Are you really saying that we should have one price / one seating for the whole plane and there should be no seat allocation / preference (in case of class jealousy), just a stampede on the airbridge then ? That shall satisfy the utilitarian theory of "what the P, U, W, Y !" you seem to be pushing.

FWIW, most of us on this forum is fair dinkum Aussies !!!!

not exactly, by all means sell tickets according to what the market will pay. Differentiate between seats too. However when it comes down to it, I think it a bit of a W (as in the W before P) to be cranky about someone sneaking a leak in a higher level toilet. It's actually just a toilet. I would agree that CC could police the loos, and at the same time everything else but at the end of the day, so long as everyone manages to get to use the loos before landing in a timely manner it will be: "She'll be right mate'...no big deal to me unless I'm busting and some bogan from biz turned the F loos into a gas chamber......

BTW last time I was on EK F I think there were 2 loo attendants for the shower loos. I made sure I left the place in tip top shape ..... Would'nt want to embarrass. After all F pax have superior ablution habits.

 

[legroom]

I beg to disagree here.

Your so-called Ws (as in the W before P) are located in the Emerald City mostly who seem happy to be "disoriented" when it comes to premium services / entitlements.

not exactly, by all means sell tickets according to what the market will pay. Differentiate between seats too. However when it comes down to it, I think it a bit of a W (as in the W before P) to be cranky about someone sneaking a leak in a higher level toilet. It's actually just a toilet. I would agree that CC could police the loos, and at the same time everything else but at the end of the day, so long as everyone manages to get to use the loos before landing in a timely manner it will be: "She'll be right mate'...no big deal to me unless I'm busting and some bogan from biz turned the F loos into a gas chamber......

BTW last time I was on EK F I think there were 2 loo attendants for the shower loos. I made sure I left the place in tip top shape ..... Would'nt want to embarrass. After all F pax have superior ablution habits.

 

[Quickstatus]

I beg to disagree here.

Your so-called Ws (as in the W before P) are located in the Emerald City mostly who seem happy to be "disoriented" when it comes to premium services / entitlements.

Agree with you there except that similar W (WP) are in F by virtue of an upgrade whether points or comp.

 

[yohy?!]

next time tar and feather the offenders as they do the walk of shame back up the stairs