Emirates to Dubai experiences

[Stitchit]

Hi everyone,
Just returned from a week in Dubai flying Emirates on the 380. Amazing aircraft I could not believe how quickly they can unload us all, it seemed faster than recent 747 flights! Have to comment on the experience as the service I considered well below par compared to my flight on United to San Fran last year and that was not good. The European staff mainly Brits, Irish, and German were excellent but the Arab staff were surly and very unsupportive of their co-workers. So much so that apart from landing and take off we just did not see them on either flight. My wife pressed the attention light to try and get some water and after waiting well over an hour without seeing anyone she tackled an attendant only to be told off for pressing the button. The European staff I believe were over worked and struggled to deal with their workload.

Don't think I will be flying with them again, I enjoy Singapore Thai and Cathay, I do not think Qantas has made the right move getting into bed with Emirates!

 

[Melburnian1]

Stitchit, while the jury may be out with a year's figures being better than a few months' worth, the one survey I saw showed that overwhelmingly, Australians want to go via SIN to Europe.

SIN hugely outranked any other intermediate stop.

EK fly ex Oz to SIN and on to DXB, but many of us prefer the Asian airports and overall experience in southeast and north Asia (think shopping in HKG or BKK, culture in DPS, beaches in Philippines and shopping and culture in Tokyo) to the Middle East's offerings.

Time will tell, but with two thirds of us not departing Oz on QF, EK or JQ, but instead choosing one of the 50 or so other international airlines that fly to and from Australia, the trend continues to be for QF to keep on losing market share. This is gradual: it is not at two per cent a month, but it has been continuing for some time with no sign of having reached its zenith.

 

[ashleyn]

Some might say 'vote with your feet' but of course it's not that simple when sitting on a stash of QFF points. Those in that situation do not have a choice. My choice is to burn all my QFF points then re-direct my CC earn elsewhere so I can again have the choice of where I travel and like the OP, Europe through Singapore is my preference.

 

[Melburnian1]

You could use the QFF points to travel to LAX plus SIN, BKK, MNL, PVG or HKG on separate trips and then with the latter buy a return ticket from the Asian port on SQ, TG, PR, CX or others.

 

[Sprucegoose]

Stitchit, while the jury may be out with a year's figures being better than a few months' worth, the one survey I saw showed that overwhelmingly, Australians want to go via SIN to Europe.

SIN hugely outranked any other intermediate stop.

EK fly ex Oz to SIN and on to DXB, but many of us prefer the Asian airports and overall experience in southeast and north Asia (think shopping in HKG or BKK, culture in DPS, beaches in Philippines and shopping and culture in Tokyo) to the Middle East's offerings.

Time will tell, but with two thirds of us not departing Oz on QF, EK or JQ, but instead choosing one of the 50 or so other international airlines that fly to and from Australia, the trend continues to be for QF to keep on losing market share. This is gradual: it is not at two per cent a month, but it has been continuing for some time with no sign of having reached its zenith.

50 international airlines flying to Australia, can you list them? Seems a lot.

 

[Sprucegoose]

Some might say 'vote with your feet' but of course it's not that simple when sitting on a stash of QFF points. Those in that situation do not have a choice. My choice is to burn all my QFF points then re-direct my CC earn elsewhere so I can again have the choice of where I travel and like the OP, Europe through Singapore is my preference.

Vote with you feet, QFF points on CX!!!

 

[DaveB]

I had a similar experience with four recent Etihad J flights. Thankfully, male Arab staff seemed like a token presence and whilst not surly, were well and truly outdone by the female staff. Reminded me a lot like QF stewards without the friendly banter.

 

[Ewing]

50 international airlines flying to Australia, can you list them? Seems a lot.

Not really.

Just Sydney alone today there were international arrivals from 29 different airlines:
AC
AI
BA
CA
CX
CZ
D7
DL
EK
EY
FJ
GA
HA
JL
JQ
KE
MU
NF
NZ
OZ
PR
QF
SQ
TG
TZ
UA
VA
VN
VS

Then look at the rest of the airports and consider what airlines don't fly here daily - 50 probably isn't too far off the mark.

 

[Sprucegoose]

Not really.

Just Sydney alone today there were international arrivals from 29 different airlines:
AC
AI
BA
CA
CX
CZ
D7
DL
EK
EY
FJ
GA
HA
JL
JQ
KE
MU
NF
NZ
OZ
PR
QF
SQ
TG
TZ
UA
VA
VN
VS

Then look at the rest of the airports and consider what airlines don't fly here daily - 50 probably isn't too far off the mark.

Im glad someone did the legwork. The other 21?

 

[Melburnian1]

According to Bureau of Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Economics, there are 48 passenger and five dedicated freight airlines operating to or from Australia. Not all operate to or from Europe. Each month BITRE publishes its international airline statistics. The tables name all the airlines, and show on a month by month basis what the overall and to some extent route load factors were, plus the change compared with the same month from a year ago:

International airline activity

 

[Sprucegoose]

According to Bureau of Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Economics, there are 48 passenger and five dedicated freight airlines operating to or from Australia. Not all operate to or from Europe. Each month BITRE publishes its international airline statistics. The tables name all the airlines, and show on a month by month basis what the overall and to some extent route load factors were, plus the change compared with the same month from a year ago:

International airline activity

Does it list destination by percentage to support your claims re Singapore?

 

[ashleyn]

Vote with you feet, QFF points on CX!!!

Per-BCN Classic award, I seem to have 1 option.

 

[Melburnian1]

Sprucegoose, if I recall the survey was featured on The Age - Business, World & Breaking News | Melbourne, Australia and Fairfax Media Limited (FXJ): Australasia's leading media company sites.

It asked which destination would passengers prefer to go through between Australia and Europe, not which one they most recently used.

The figure for choosing SIN as a first preference (one was only allowed to indicate one transit point or stopover enroute, but there was an 'other') was very high (46 or 48 per cent is my memory).

Since QF and EK began their 'marriage', SQ has introduced extra Australia - Asia flights, although it downsized the aircraft on some.

Bear in mind on any particular day if carrier A (let's say SQ) is booked out (whether totally or in a particular fare sub-class - i.e. T class in whY), a passenger with an inflexible departure date or maximum price stipulation may end up travelling on another airline that was not his or her first choice.

Nonetheless, SIN continues to have a major market share of through passengers but this is difficult to calculate from the BITRE website aviation statistics as it does not show how many passengers on SQ, CX, QF, TG and so on were continuing to a European destination after going through Asia or the Middle East: it merely shows 'traffic' to the first stop which for EK may be SIN, KUL, BKK or DXB; for QF would normally be DXB although there may be, for instance, QF passengers travelling to HKG who then connect on a single PNR to AY to Helsinki. This level of detail is not reflected in the BITRE statistics. See note 3 on page 4 of the 'International airline activity - international' monthly bulletin that by sheer fluke refers to the via Singapore to Europe situation not being fully reflected in the statistics.

A reader can see that the airline routes Singapore to Sydney, Melbourne, Perth and Brisbane are currently the second, third, fourth and 10th most popular of any international air routes into or ex Australia. That does not however tell me how many are continuing to Europe, connecting to Asia or elsewhere, or whose destination is SIN.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

It asked which destination would passengers prefer to go through between Australia and Europe, not which one they most recently used.

The figure for choosing SIN as a first preference (one was only allowed to indicate one transit point or stopover enroute, but there was an 'other') was very high (46 or 48 per cent is my memory).

Since QF and EK began their 'marriage', SQ has introduced extra Australia - Asia flights, although it downsized the aircraft on some.

In this day and age where people can book on the websites of overseas airlines without having to reside in those countries, there are just so many options with both award travel and regular airfares that you can simply construct your itinerary made up of a combination of the above.

It's not a dealbreaker if the one airline doesn't go all the way from Australia to Europe yet a lot of Australians have that 'meat & 3 veg' attitude of expecting their airline of choice to take them to their chosen country of choice with a stopover at the city of choice eg SIN.

I'm tired of hearing all the whinging about 'not being able to go via SIN to Europe' anymore waaaaaaaaaaaa or rather not wanting to go via DXB because it's something new & they're creatures of habit. If you love SIN so much just book a return ticket ex Aust to SIN then a return ticket ex SIN to your final destination - problem solved.

 

[Melburnian1]

ozbeachbabe, it might be more a case of 'not wanting to go via DXB' for either cultural reasons or because many of us prefer the short leg first northbound, followed by the longer leg, rather than the other way around which is the case with travelling via the Middle East. A southbound traveller on QF 2 or QF10 commented on AFF how she slept poorly on the first leg (LHR - DXB) because it was too short a period with the lights off.

 

[ComeGroundWithMe]

I'm tired of hearing all the whinging about 'not being able to go via SIN to Europe' anymore waaaaaaaaaaaa or rather not wanting to go via DXB because it's something new & they're creatures of habit. If you love SIN so much just book a return ticket ex Aust to SIN then a return ticket ex SIN to your final destination - problem solved.

+1.

I do not think Qantas has made the right move getting into bed with Emirates!

Because British Airways totally had better service.

I'm not sure if it's a right move in the eyes of anti-Dubai paxs, and Y paxs who have yet to glimpse the true horror stories of flying in Y, but if I were Qantas, I'd rather have 5000 seats booked in 3 weeks (Emirates alliance), than 1600 in one YEAR (with BA).

 

[ComeGroundWithMe]

ozbeachbabe, it might be more a case of 'not wanting to go via DXB' for either cultural reasons or because many of us prefer the short leg first northbound, followed by the longer leg, rather than the other way around which is the case with travelling via the Middle East. A southbound traveller on QF 2 or QF10 commented on AFF how she slept poorly on the first leg (LHR - DXB) because it was too short a period with the lights off.

This really has no value unless it affects revenue at the end of the day, and apparently it doesn't.

$245 million loss (2012) is not worth sustaining just because some people prefer SIN.

 

[maninblack]

I'm tired of hearing all the whinging about 'not being able to go via SIN to Europe' anymore waaaaaaaaaaaa or rather not wanting to go via DXB because it's something new & they're creatures of habit. If you love SIN so much just book a return ticket ex Aust to SIN then a return ticket ex SIN to your final destination - problem solved.

You are essentially right. There is a simple answer, if you don't want to go to Dubai and/or fly EK, don't fly Qantas in that direction anymore. Choose one of the other carriers, most notably CX if OW is important or if going through SIN is important choose BA. You can fly BA from MEL on QF metal to SIN then on BA to LHR all on a BA ticket and still get QFF SC's and points.

Most people just want to get to their destination and the EK tie up gives a lot of flexibility. I won't personally be doing it but I have other choices. Some people like to believe that QF is still the 'national carrier' and are sentimental about things, that's also fair enough.

 

[medhead]

Sprucegoose, if I recall the survey was featured on

I remember that survey. Istr there was a difference between the question asked and the conclusion that you're drawing.

 

[markis10]

I remember that survey. Istr there was a difference between the question asked and the conclusion that you're drawing.

There is a difference between what people would like VS what they are spending their money on, a quick cross reference between BITRE figures and tourism figures quantify how many are going via Asia to Europe, needless to say its dwindling month by month. In July there were 116000 movements between Europe and Australia, while Asia accounted for 315000, naturally its going to look like Singapore is popular, but digging into the figures prove its destination traffic not transit to Europe in the case of resident short term departures

http://www.tourism.australia.com/documents/Statistics/Statistics-ABS-arrivals-July-2013.pdf

In bound tourism shows 109800 from Europe while 215000 from Asia, again its no surprise Singapore is one of the more popular routes but not indicative of European originated travel.

http://www.abs.gov.au/AUSSTATS/[email protected]/DetailsPage/3401.0Jul 2013?OpenDocument


CAPA did a good study on traffic in the premium cabins, the shift to the Middle east was well in place by last year:

http://centreforaviation.com/analys...dom-carriers-gain-scale-and-drop-prices-78646

Then the reduction in Europe-Southwest Pacific premium traffic in May-2012 became the second-highest globally (12%), while Middle East-Southwest Pacific traffic was the third-highest growth region (15.4%).

Even Asia to Pacific was in decline by that stage: