Double SC's - A mere Marketing tool or Doom for WP?

[Alanslegal]

Since I am a man, I'd say good on Qantas. The promotion is helping/luring flyers retain elite status and helping new flyers earn status which only means more business for them down the track.

IF I was a woman, I'd still have the same opinion.

 

[Princess Fiona]

It's all rather going around in circles. I don't want to see WP's benefits devalued, but conversely I don't want to see my benefits devalued either. I believe Double SC offers do devalue status. I understand why QF makes the offers but I think there is a danger that we will see an erosion of benefits as QF struggles to provide for it's top tiers.

p

Tony a couple of questions if I may:
Do you think that there has been an increase in WP's and if so are you aware of any evidence to support this?
Do you think QF should have a QF metal SC minimum for WP as it does for P1 thus removing the opportunity to become WP with 4 red-e deals SYD-MEL and a couple of $500 KUPP's?

 

[lovestotravel]

Re: WP for the first time ever

But congratulations to Ashleyn and lovestotravel.Splendid examples of the QF strategy to get more BIS.

I'll detail my flying history over the past few years (all self-funded)

About 2 1/2 years ago, started flying Virgin (and Air NZ) for all domestic and a few international flights, moved up to Gold and Platinum quite fast although there was a double SC offer which made me Platinum a few flights faster than I would have otherwise

Now I was just flying Virgin and my Qantas status dropped from Gold-Silver-Nothing during that time

Virgin started to annoy late last year and more-so this year, overcrowded lounges, J class refit debacle, no IFE, cancelling flights due to poor loads and not willing to assist me besides just taking a flight hours earlier, not even willing to cover me the extra baggage charges I would incur on Qantas...

As a result I started flying Qantas for some of my domestic flights, and it just felt better, more of the time! Moved back to Silver pretty easily then received a double SC offer...

Booked 2 x status runs for an extra top up to get Platinum.. Without these status runs I would have been easily Gold (already have Qantas lounge access which I purchased when Virgin started to annoy me)

As a result of the double SC offer, Qantas has already pocked $4000+ in domestic flights with another huge chunk for next year, so that I retain Platinum.. I am Platinum with Virgin until March 2014 so will worry about them late in 2012 IF I bother to retain Platinum with them.

Now I realise that $4k is not that much, but it went into Qantas's pockets rather than Virgin, and next year will be $$$$$$$$$ all for Qantas and not Virgin, simply because of the double SC offer

Splendid examples of the devaluation of the SG & WP program.

 

[TonyHancock]

I think it is fine to state your opinions about how you feel - the problem is the mechanism to fix that just isn't there. Removing F lounge access to WP would be a major issue for QF but building an F only lounge I would expect (in the context of a business losing millions) uneconomic.

I'm resigned to your view I don't think the mechanism is there.

I guess if the lounges do become overcrowded, to the point where QF really must do something about it, then they will find a way to reduce the number of pax with access.

The real danger for WP's is how QF sees its many SG's. I don't know a damn thing about running an airline loyalty program but it does rather seem to me that SG's would be the low hanging fruit in the eyes of DJ.

Time will tell if the DSC promotion is devaluing benefits. I suspect the signs will come, not through crowded lounges, but through the seat selection process.

 

[simongr]

The real danger for WP's is how QF sees its many SG's. I don't know a damn thing about running an airline loyalty program but it does rather seem to me that SG's would be the low hanging fruit in the eyes of DJ.

Which is why SG got a bump in their earning and WP didnt.

 

[harvyk]

Do you think QF should have a QF metal SC minimum for WP as it does for P1 thus removing the opportunity to become WP with 4 red-e deals SYD-MEL and a couple of $500 KUPP's?

Perhaps what they should do is set the bar for WP (and by extension all other statuses) lower*, but then insist that say 80% or even 90% of the SC earning flights must be on QF metal with a QF flight number. That way they are truly rewarding the QANTAS frequent flyers, and whilst not removing the incentive to fly other OW carriers, it does make it impossible to maintain status without flying QF frequently.

* - Setting the bar lower will be an important part of keeping existing loyal QF FFer's. Last thing QF wants to do is "enhance" the requirements for getting status and watch once loyal flyers walk out the door along with the "QFFers" who are WP's and yet struggle with the 4 QF flights. Yes I realise this removes things like YUPP's as a fast track to WP.

 

[Fantic125]

I think it is fine to state your opinions about how you feel - the problem is the mechanism to fix that just isn't there. Removing F lounge access to WP would be a major issue for QF but building an F only lounge I would expect (in the context of a business losing millions) uneconomic.

Using the SYD Int F lounge as an example, in theory they could section off one or two of the seating bays near the spa's for P1, F & CL for their exclusive use if they so desired, but in practice it may be difficult to manage.

 

[TonyHancock]

Tony a couple of questions if I may:
Do you think that there has been an increase in WP's and if so are you aware of any evidence to support this?
Do you think QF should have a QF metal SC minimum for WP as it does for P1 thus removing the opportunity to become WP with 4 red-e deals SYD-MEL and a couple of $500 KUPP's?

I do think there has been an increase in WP's. My evidence is anecdotal based on lounge visits over the last year or so, and through suppliers and customers I talk to. I'm sure others might report differently.

As for qualification I hadn't really thought about it. I guess my concern is the volume of WP's so I'm not sure how many people would go to the trouble of flying around the US just for status. If you are an SG clocking up 800-900 SC's per year jumping to the next level is made relatively easy with DSC offers that last for 3 to 4 months. Personally I think there are a fair few making that leap to WP if my customers and suppliers are to be believed.

If people weren't going to pursue the status jump why would QF make the offer in the first place.

 

[lovestotravel]

Re: WP for the first time ever

Think between this and the hundreds of other posts on the OPs other threads it's time to draw the line, it's clear that the OPs responses are simply to continue waving the red flag in front of the proverbial bull....

I was actually thinking that and thought it would be great if there were no replies to the thread

 

[samh004]

Re: WP for the first time ever

Do you think QF should have a QF metal SC minimum for WP as it does for P1 thus removing the opportunity to become WP with 4 red-e deals SYD-MEL and a couple of $500 KUPP's?

Don't mean to flame anyone, but yes!

Though not sure it need to be 900SC/75% like for P1.

I do think the lifetime tally should be amended thusly though.

If people weren't going to pursue the status jump why would QF make the offer in the first place.

I wonder if you give them a boost one year, but not the next year, if they'll try their best to keep the status or just fall back to what they were. If it's the latter, no worries, if it's the former, you've done well to target them.

 

[harvyk]

Re: WP for the first time ever

I wonder if you give them a boost one year, but not the next year, if they'll try their best to keep the status or just fall back to what they were. If it's the latter, no worries, if it's the former, you've done well to target them.

Well most people, once they get the taste for something, they want more. So making someone a WP via a DSC promo one year is likely to make them want to earn enough for the following years on their own.

 

[lovestotravel]

Re: WP for the first time ever

I wonder if you give them a boost one year, but not the next year, if they'll try their best to keep the status or just fall back to what they were. If it's the latter, no worries, if it's the former, you've done well to target them.

That is the bit that does annoy me to be honest

Virgin matched a ton of people, anyone that wanted it... Some didn't fly much at all and they have targeted various offers such as fly twice in Business and get gold/plat and/or double SC's again....

That's going a bit too far really

For me, I will be flying solely Qantas to retain Platinum as I see a huge benefit of Qantas Platinum over Virgin Platinum

For me the sticking points are

Dedicated J lounge - Virgin will fix this in time.....
Consistency of service from staff - Virgin all over the place - Qantas consistent and I feel treated better as a no status/silver/gold with Qantas than a Plat with Virgin

However, another part of me wants to help Virgin, by flying them, because if Virgin wasn't around I feel the J* logo would be on lots more planes at the moment

 

[harvyk]

Re: WP for the first time ever

However, another part of me wants to help Virgin, by flying them, because if Virgin wasn't around I feel the J* logo would be on lots more planes at the moment

Actually if virgin wasn't around the J* logo wouldn't exist (well it would, but not owned by QF - long story). The whole reason why JQ was created was as a direct response to DJ, but being able to keep QF at it's roots a full service carrier.

 

[samh004]

Re: WP for the first time ever

However, another part of me wants to help Virgin, by flying them, because if Virgin wasn't around I feel the J* logo would be on lots more planes at the moment

I'm not sure things are as peachy as they seem over there

 

[TonyHancock]

Re: WP for the first time ever

For me, I will be flying solely Qantas to retain Platinum as I see a huge benefit of Qantas Platinum over Virgin Platinum

I'm interested in this because for domestic travel I find DJ Plat gives me more than QF WP. Internationally it is QF for me.

The whole perception/feeling thing is interesting. I hadn't really given the DJ DSC promos and status matches much thought. Probably because I was one of the many who took up the match. I guess I don't feel the "ownership" I do with QF so I am less bothered by DJ's DSC offers than I am by QF even though the same devaluation of benefits is occurring.

 

[harvyk]

Re: WP for the first time ever

The whole perception/feeling thing is interesting. I hadn't really given the DJ DSC promos and status matches much thought. Probably because I was one of the many who took up the match. I guess I don't feel the "ownership" I do with QF so I am less bothered by DJ's DSC offers than I am by QF even though the same devaluation of benefits is occurring.

That's the thing, if we get an excellent discount on a product, we're not going to sit there feeling sorry for someone who has just paid full price, and likewise, if we have just paid full price for something, we hate to see it go on sale the next day. In a way SC's are the currency of the status wanting frequent flyer. In a lot of ways, this is the crux of the issue, the OP has seen the "today on sale" sign go up, and they feel the exclusive club is no longer as exclusive as they once remember.

The reality is probably far different, with most DSC promo's going to people who didn't need them, or to people who aren't interested in such things. Besides I can't see QF having an open door policy on the FLounges any time soon, as ultimately someone has to pay for your lunch and drink there.

 

[straitman]

Consistency of service from staff - Virgin all over the place - Qantas consistent and I feel treated better as a no status/silver/gold with Qantas than a Plat with Virgin

I find this comment interesting as a common theme on AFF is that the only thing consistent about Qantas service is the inconsistency :!:

 

[dajop]

Re: WP for the first time ever

Reading (some but not all) of this thread has reminded what the W in WP stands for.

There is one person bemoaning the double status credit offers bolstering ranks of WP's (perhaps Virgin should be blamed, because before they started chasing corporate $, double SC's offer were as rare as the proverbial). Without doubt, QF target these to increase revenue through these offers, making the company stronger, makes sense and probably gives them more money to spend in F lounges. As WP's have no attractive equivalent alternative, I doubt they'll lose many because of overcrowding in the F lounge. If there were alternatives (eg F lounge equiv access flying out of SYD/MEL by a competitor, I think Feper's arguments would have a lot more merit).

Then there is aslo an alternative group postulating superiority because of their almost exclusive spend with QF group, as opposed to OW. Wow! Alliances work both ways, so some get their status almost exclusively on QF and others don't, but QF also attracts business from alliance partners as well and benefits from that. Also, there are benefits globally that many would miss out on if you took such a narrow view, and not to mention one of the key criticisms of Virgin over the years is the lack of a strong partner network with consistent benefits.

 

[drewbles]

Re: WP for the first time ever

Moderator, strange choice to carve this up and create a new thread?
Is this done as a regular thing?

If you are going to create new threads, with strange titles then please do not credit them In my name in starting them.

You can, of course, feel free not to hijack peoples threads too. Don't rain on the parades of people that are excited about something.

Remember, It's QF's program. They do as they please. You choose to keep P1, great. You know what is on offer. They change the goalposts, you re-evaluate. Such is life.

We all have the right to compliment or complain, but is there really a need to continually flog a dead horse?

 

[TonyHancock]

Re: WP for the first time ever

the OP has seen the "today on sale" sign go up, and they feel the exclusive club is no longer as exclusive as they once remember.

I can't speak for the OP but I can tell you that I don't feel that way at all. Nothing to do with exclusivity for me and everything to do with certainty and comfort. When I can't take up the benefits that status supposedly affords me because of overcrowding then it is a problem for me. I'm not annoyed at those doing the overcrowding I'm annoyed at QF for letting it happen.

It seems to me there is a disconnect between me and many other posters here. I am a world weary traveler expecting to grab a half decent meal on my next lounge visit because I didn't have time to get one at the last hotel, and the meal on the plane will not be something to look forward to.....and then I'll be doing it all again a few days later. :-|