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Diners club companion card

Nutcase

Active Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2005
Messages
519
You are smart; but I am smart too! :p

A friend of mine who I coach on this, she just left South Korea, and she said that it was accepted everywhere; but I am now checking against XE credit card calculator, and the skimming is really bad.

16/9 KRW 35000 = AUD 44.53
XE suggest 2% more than Visa MC Discover

19/9 KRW 10000 = AUD 12.65
XE suggest 3.1% more than Visa MC Discover

I was looking forward to using this card at the end of this month, in Singapore Beijing and North Korea. Maybe I should stick with West of Australia bank?

OK, just managed to hack into her West of Australia Bank, haha

18/09 KRW 349500 AUD 436.63
XE suggest 1.3% stolen

24/9 KRW 21500 AUD 26.53
XE suggest 0.34% stolen

These margins are much closer than what we consider normal.

Is the Diners dodgy?
Is Diners dodgy? Of course not.

Fluctuations in currency that work against you are not "stolen" funds nor are they "skimming". Yes there is a spread however this is the case with all cards.

The exchange rates for BWA will be different to Diners and most likely (and this is only a guess) Diners swapped through USD on the way from KRW to AUD. Don't forget that the card scheme sets the FX rate - not the Bank.

Also keep in mind that KRW is NOT a major trading currency. AUD and USD are. This will affect the rate that you get given how the card scheme manages their FX desk.

In the grand scheme of all the foreign transactions (and the total amount of foreign spend) the amount we are talking about here is minimal.
 

Chicken

Established Member
Joined
May 9, 2006
Messages
1,048
Is Diners dodgy? Of course not

Fluctuations in currency that work against you are not "stolen" funds nor are they "skimming".
I did not mean it literally.

Yes there is a spread however this is the case with all cards.
West of Australia Bank is a MasterCard, currency conversion is done by MasterCard, and MasterCard convert from whatever currency to USD before then AUD. (Visa is direct from foreign currency to AUD).

So even if Diners did convert via USD first, they are still approximately 1 - 1.5 % above what MasterCard is doing.

In the grand scheme of all the foreign transactions (and the total amount of foreign spend) the amount we are talking about here is minimal.
Then you should just use the Citi Visa which has 3.4% commission. This discussion would not be relevant to you.
 

Nutcase

Active Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2005
Messages
519
I did not mean it literally.



West of Australia Bank is a MasterCard, currency conversion is done by MasterCard, and MasterCard convert from whatever currency to USD before then AUD. (Visa is direct from foreign currency to AUD).

So even if Diners did convert via USD first, they are still approximately 1 - 1.5 % above what MasterCard is doing.



Then you should just use the Citi Visa which has 3.4% commission. This discussion would not be relevant to you.
Easy there cowboy. Lets just take a step back.

The original post asked if Diners were dodgy and there was reference to skimming and stealing. If the questions weren't meant to be taken literally why were they asked?

1) BWA is Bank West - not West of Australia Bank
2) MC does swap thru USD
3) 1-1.5% is the spread that DC have as part of their regime. That is their prerogative. It is not a rip off.
4) The FX fee (not commission) is not part of this discussion - lets just keep it to the topic.

Given that original examples were for a total amount of about $600 then we are now talking about $6 so this is indeed irrelevant.
 

Chicken

Established Member
Joined
May 9, 2006
Messages
1,048
1) BWA is Bank West - not West of Australia Bank
You are marked as Active Member, you should know why we avoid using bank names (and if you want to pick on my post, you should at least try to spell the name of the bank correctly)

EDIT: I thought about this point you made, and I just realised that this is the the OTHER discussion, so yes, I can make it Bankwest; however, that post is now locked, cannot be changed.

The rest of your post is pointless, so I would ignore those.

If you are not interested in comparing the rate difference between MC and Diners, or what's the point of this Diners, then this thread is not relevant to you, and you have nothing to contribute.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

tlam

Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2016
Messages
104
1) BWA is Bank West - not West of Australia Bank
We should only use the codenames for the banks and the credit cards and if you are a long time member, you should understand and know what we are talking about.
 

Nutcase

Active Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2005
Messages
519
We should only use the codenames for the banks and the credit cards and if you are a long time member, you should understand and know what we are talking about.
Codenames? No - I wont be playing games like that mainly because you aren't fooling anyone by trying to mask the name of Bank. That is utterly ridiculous.
 

Nutcase

Active Member
Joined
Jan 29, 2005
Messages
519
You are marked as Active Member, you should know why we avoid using bank names (and if you want to pick on my post, you should at least try to spell the name of the bank correctly)

The rest of your post is pointless, so I would ignore those.

If you are not interested in comparing the rate difference between MC and Diners, or what's the point of this Diners, then this thread is not relevant to you, and you have nothing to contribute.
I joined 13 years ago.

As I mentioned in my previous response - no one is fooling anyone by trying to mask the name of the Bank or product. The product teams at the Banks can and do access this board. It's public and thats the point.

Its well established that trying to compare FX rates between different cards is a road to nowhere and realistically trying to game the system for a few bucks is a waste of time. Avoid the FX fee? Of course but comparing transactions across cards is for train spotters.

Best to enjoy your travels.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

theblank

Established Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2014
Messages
1,344
IIts well established that trying to compare FX rates between different cards is a road to nowhere and realistically trying to game the system for a few bucks is a waste of time. Avoid the FX fee? Of course but comparing transactions across cards is for train spotters.
Thanks for the advice.

the Diners Club companion card for Citibank Visa is a brand new product released about a month ago. Very little is known about Diner's actual margin it makes on the currency Conversions. Citibanks terms are that they are not adding any overseas fee to the Diners transaction, and they are just passing on the Diners conversion. Thus, Citibank dont tell us what cut Diners is taking, and they are not obligated too.

Because we are credit-card-points-earning junkies, we are very excited about this product and keen to work out what its costing us to use the Diners and earn that measly 1point per dollar.

Due diligence, is not gaming the system.
 

Chicken

Established Member
Joined
May 9, 2006
Messages
1,048
I have managed to obtain the original receipts, and cross check the dates against dates on statements. Statements from both Citi and Bankwest do reflect the actual dates of the transactions. So we have ruled out discrepancy with card schemes doing forex whether using transaction date or settlement date.

Below are examples of tickets. Tickets in local South Korea time.

Date – time – Korean Won – AUD – card – forex commission indicated by XE

2018-09-16 12:23 30000 38.17 Diners 1.99%
2018-09-16 17:40 6550 8.17 Bankwest -0.015%

2018-09-19 13:18 35000 44.26 Diners 3.075%
2018-09-19 21:58 21500 26.53 Bankwest 0.580%

So there you go. Again, it proves that Diners is not 0 forex commission as Citi claims. This Diners is a scam.
 

fiBer

Intern
Joined
Jan 30, 2011
Messages
56
I too will dip into this Diners FX analysis.

Used it a few times (where available) in HK last week, and can confirm on my statement there appears to be a higher rate calculated...
Oct 7 HKD$1515 converted to AUD via Diners $278.08 (that day's spot rate suggested ~$271 AUD)
Oct 8 HKD$2100 converted to AUD via Coles MasterCard $378.10 (spot rate suggested ~$377 AUD)
 

theblank

Established Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2014
Messages
1,344
Oct 7 HKD$1515 converted to AUD via Diners $278.08 (that day's spot rate suggested ~$271 AUD)
Oct 8 HKD$2100 converted to AUD via Coles MasterCard $378.10 (spot rate suggested ~$377 AUD)
given that there is a signifcant difference between that days spot rate and the actual conversion, would suggest that you are comparing to the wrong days spot rates.

Keep trying different days until you get a difference that is closer, then yuo will have nailed it.

The AUD was stronger than the HKD in the days after the 8th, which explains why the 2nd transaction is a better deal.
 

Chicken

Established Member
Joined
May 9, 2006
Messages
1,048
given that there is a signifcant difference between that days spot rate and the actual conversion, would suggest that you are comparing to the wrong days spot rates.

Keep trying different days until you get a difference that is closer, then yuo will have nailed it
I think you are missing the point of this exercise.

What's the point of a card, if they are only going to sell me the currency 2 or 3 or 5 days after I did the transaction? How would I ever know what would I be paying? They may as well sell me the currency 10 years later.

Isn't the point of this exercise being locating the card which would stick closest to the mid bank rate on the day of transaction, which is the day I buy the currency?
 

kpro

Member
Joined
May 26, 2012
Messages
138
Got a mail today, they're sending out new cards already it seems. Chip+Contactless, assuming readers around Australia support it.

1. We are introducing contactless functionality which provides an easy and convenient way of processing payments under $100 - simply tap your chip-enabled card against the contactless reader in store to complete your transaction. For purchases over $100, you will need to enter your PIN.
Selected merchant terminals within Australia will accept Diners Club contactless transactions. However, if the terminal does not do so please continue to swipe your card. Diners Club is working continuously to increase contactless acceptance in merchants across Australia.

2. We are also changing the way we print the card number and your details on the card - rather than emboss these on the front of the card, they will be printed on the back. There is no change in the way you use your card. Please note, if you have a companion World Mastercard, this change is not applicable to it.
 

theblank

Established Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2014
Messages
1,344
I think you are missing the point of this exercise.
The point of the exercise is to determine what margin Diners adds to the conversion rate.
So far, you have no idea what it is.

However your exercise appears to be to disparage Citibank as much as you can. You have already decided not to use it, so you might as well find better things to do with your life.
 

Chicken

Established Member
Joined
May 9, 2006
Messages
1,048
However your exercise appears to be to disparage Citibank as much as you can.
OK, so when we scrutinize Bankwest, and found that it is one of the bests, what do you call that?

You have already decided not to use it, so you might as well find better things to do with your life.
Right, I don't know, how trying to work out bank fees, is "disparage". how hunting bank fees becomes personal......
 

Legoman

Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
226
The point of the exercise is to determine what margin Diners adds to the conversion rate.
With the Diners Card unable to be added to PayPal, this is going to require someone with both cards who is overseas, to ideally buy two identical things (like a train ticket, or tourist attraction entry ticket) at the same time (within minutes of each other), early in a working week like a Monday or Tuesday in two transactions, one using the DC card and the other using any of a BW Plat Zero, 28° or Citibank Plus Debit MasterCard and then comparing for us the end results when they get their statements for the two used cards. That's the only way we'll ever find out for sure.
 

Chicken

Established Member
Joined
May 9, 2006
Messages
1,048
With the Diners Card unable to be added to PayPal, this is going to require someone with both cards who is overseas, to ideally buy two identical things (like a train ticket, or tourist attraction entry ticket) at the same time (within minutes of each other), early in a working week like a Monday or Tuesday in two transactions, one using the DC card and the other using any of a BW Plat Zero, 28° or Citibank Plus Debit MasterCard and then comparing for us the end results when they get their statements for the two used cards. That's the only way we'll ever find out for sure.
Yes, the closest I have managed is my post above, with transactions dated 16/9 being only few hours in between, during business hours.

However, I will be going to SIN PEK HKG FNJ next week, so this is what I am going to try, with AmEx as well. Well, maybe not in FNJ ...
 

Legoman

Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2015
Messages
226
From experience, can anyone please tell me what a reasonable time is expected before you see some evidence of the Diner's Card application from Citibank after applying? I applied a week ago and have absolutely no evidence whatsoever of having done so this far. Nothing in online banking, no acknowledgement e-mails, just nothing. Is that normal?
 

Chicken

Established Member
Joined
May 9, 2006
Messages
1,048
I applied a week ago and have absolutely no evidence whatsoever of having done so this far.
You may see your new card number in the card activation function.

Your card would not be listed in the account list within internet banking, until you have actually used it.
 

theblank

Established Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2014
Messages
1,344
I applied a week ago and have absolutely no evidence whatsoever of having done so this far. Nothing in online banking, no acknowledgement e-mails, just nothing. Is that normal?
Yes, took about 1 week or so for me to receive the Diners in the mail.
Go back a couple pages and a few people and maybe myself already posted the time frames how long it toook to get the card
 

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