Compensation for Airline delays

[glasszon]

I am one of the passengers that got caught in the QF73 (SYD-SFO) delay on Friday, the plane was delayed by 6 hours and only departed at 8:30pm.

With the exception of constantly changing departure time (it pretty much was updated once every hour so everyone was forced to hang around the terminal), Qantas handled it quite well and everyone is given $30 food voucher each.

But this got me thinking, normally can we expect any compensation (beyond meal/hotel) when the flight is delayed by a significant amount of time? Thankfully the flight did take off that day, I called my TI about what happens if Qantas cancelled the flight and the answer wasn't pretty (I had to cover the excess first, which would probably wipe out anything I could have claimed under the TI).

If it makes any difference, my flight was from MEL-SYD-SFO, so the stopover turned out to be much longer than expected, big thumps up to the Amex lounge in Sydney since they housed quite a few QF27/QF73 passengers stuck that day, so the only thing I ended up losing was the half day that I could have spent in SFO.

(Off topic, there was a few passengers who booked a connecting flight with another non-one world airline..., that really drilled home the point to always book any same day connecting flights on the same ticket)

 

[anat0l]

The short answer is, no.

Legally, there is no obligation for Qantas (or another airline in the same situation) to provide any assistance. Whatever they do is a goodwill gesture. Some things they will do as a matter of obligation:

• If you had an onward flight on the same ticket, which you would miss due to the delayed QF flight, QF should be able to help you reschedule that flight.
• If you had to stay overnight in SYD because the flight was delayed that long, QF will usually find accommodation for you, free of charge. If you lived in SYD, you would have your taxi fares from and back to the airport covered. This is not an obligation but QF will come through on this.
• If Qantas cancelled the flight, they would attempt to rebook you on another suitable flight or give you your money back. A suitable flight could be the next day's flight, routed through another port, possibly with another airline (this last one is rare).

Some things Qantas (or another airline) will not cover due to irregular operations like this include:

• If you miss out on a night of accommodation at your destination, the airline won't cover the cost of that night. You'll need to work it out with the hotel, or claim back on travel insurance.
• If you miss pre-booked transfers (not Qantas Chauffeur Drive), the airline won't cover these. Again, you need to negotiate with them directly.
• If you have a cruise booked to depart after your flight arrives, the airline won't be responsible if you miss the boat. Sometimes you can use your travel insurance to get onto another flight that will get you there on time to meet that cruise.
• If you booked an onward flight as a separate ticket, even if the connecting time is "legal", if you miss that flight for whatever reason, Qantas will not be responsible.

Very few jurisdictions in the world have any legal or other obligations for carriers to offer any sort of compensation for delays, even if they are within airline control. A minimum would be reasonable refreshments and accommodation commensurate to the length and timing of the delay; rebooking or refunds for cancellations. A rare exception is the EU Regulation 261, which covers flights operated by any carrier departing from an EU member state, or any flight flying into the EU on a carrier from an EU member state. Here, there are legislated provisions for both care and compensation for delays, cancellations, upgrades/downgrades etc., although much of the compensation must be claimed some time after the event (not immediately at the airport).

Travel insurance will cover many things although, just like you found out, many of them will only cover the amount over and above the excess (pretty much all complimentary travel insurance policies offered via, e.g. Platinum credit cards, have an excess, typically about $100 or so. AFF's discounted travel insurance partner has excesses of $125 or $250.) You also need to read your policy extremely carefully to check for limits and specific conditions (e.g. how many hours after the scheduled departure time must a flight be delayed to be eligible for compensation under the policy).

 

[glasszon]

I see, guess I must got really lucky with the flight eventually departing that day, this was the first overseas flight (excluding trans-tasman flights) in the last 3 years for me, so I am a bit rusty on things like that.

Note to self - next time buy a TI without any excesses!

 

[anat0l]

Note to self - next time buy a TI without any excesses!

Note though that this will also mean your insurance premiums will be more expensive.

 

[mannej]

Note to self - next time buy a TI without any excesses!

And check the PDS to see what the actual policy covers in terms of delays - I've been caught out like that before...

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Travel insurance will cover many things although, just like you found out, many of them will only cover the amount over and above the excess (pretty much all complimentary travel insurance policies offered via, e.g. Platinum credit cards, have an excess, typically about $100 or so. AFF's discounted travel insurance partner has excesses of $125 or $250.) You also need to read your policy extremely carefully to check for limits and specific conditions (e.g. how many hours after the scheduled departure time must a flight be delayed to be eligible for compensation under the policy).

It depends which section of the travel insurance you look at. For a case of delay to travel plans the excess is often not there. ANZ platinum for example will provide $250 cover for hotels and meals for a delay to your scheduled flight of 6 or more hours, nil excess.

Edited - looking at a random policy for the USA with TID - also nil excess for travel delay.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Very few jurisdictions in the world have any legal or other obligations for carriers to offer any sort of compensation for delays, even if they are within airline control.

Except, possibly, for the Montreal Convention, Article 19. Although bringing a claim under this can be somewhat challenging.

 

[vantage03]

EU261 is great and definitely worth claiming if delayed within, or flying to the EU.

I had a 13 hour delay on a LH flight (booked with miles) from SFO-MUC in January. I emailed their customer feedback saying I knew I was entitled to EUR600 per passenger. Got a call the next day offering EUR600 per passenger in addition to food and hotel expenses which I had supplied receipts for. A rare case I was impressed with LH's customer relations lol

 

[Orange Freeway Exit 2]

The "compensation" for airline delays is not appearing in a future episode of Air Crash Investigations.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The "compensation" for airline delays is not appearing in a future episode of Air Crash Investigations.

Which is what the airlines would like us to believe.

But is, in most cases, complete poppycock. EU261 is evidence of that.

 

[Himeno]

EU261 is great and definitely worth claiming if delayed within, or flying to the EU.

EU261 only covers flights by EU flagged airlines and other flights departing the EU.
ie, QF1 isn't covered, QF2 (ex LHR) is.

 

[Kangol]

Are there any limits to how long after the flight you have to claim? (EU261) I had a QF flight ex-LHR a few years ago that was delayed by 11.5 hrs, I got meals and overnight accommodation paid for. Stayed on the same (delayed) flight - not rerouted - and just arrived back in Australia half a day late. Only bringing this up now because I read about a similar story. At the time, I was under the impression that cash compensation was only for cancellations and denied boarding.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Are there any limits to how long after the flight you have to claim? (EU261) I had a QF flight ex-LHR a few years ago that was delayed by 11.5 hrs, I got meals and overnight accommodation paid for. Stayed on the same (delayed) flight - not rerouted - and just arrived back in Australia half a day late. Only bringing this up now because I read about a similar story. At the time, I was under the impression that cash compensation was only for cancellations and denied boarding.

This article may be of help - looks like 6 years? (See towards the end - 'How far back can I claim'): How to claim EU flight delay compensation|(EC) 261/2004 | This is Money

The article also gives the history of EU261 - originally cancellation, but later determined to mean an extended delay = cancellation.

 

[albatross710]

This has got me interested. In 2014 Mrs Albatross and I took a beautiful SQ suites One World redemption from MEL - ZRH where we connected to the Swiss Air flight to Athens.

In Athens we planned to board the Aegean flight to Santorini scheduled for 1910 hrs, then delayed until 2100 then cancelled and we were rebooked to a flight the following day. The flight was cancelled due to strong cross winds at JTR which excluded safe operations.

I'm thinking that this cancellation could be excluded due to extraordinary circumstance, although it wasn't a hurricane, just strong crosswinds.

What do you think are my chances?

Doesn't cost anything to claim.

Alby

 

[MEL_Traveller]

This has got me interested. In 2014 Mrs Albatross and I took a beautiful SQ suites One World redemption from MEL - ZRH where we connected to the Swiss Air flight to Athens.

In Athens we planned to board the Aegean flight to Santorini scheduled for 1910 hrs, then delayed until 2100 then cancelled and we were rebooked to a flight the following day. The flight was cancelled due to strong cross winds at JTR which excluded safe operations.

I'm thinking that this cancellation could be excluded due to extraordinary circumstance, although it wasn't a hurricane, just strong crosswinds.

What do you think are my chances?

Doesn't cost anything to claim.

Alby

Weather related would generally only give rise to duty of care in the event your immediate flight is affected by that weather (this would be meals and accommodation as appropriate depending on the length of the delay). There are possible exceptions... for example if the arriving aircraft was affected by weather but the outbound was not, you may have a claim.

In your case you'd need to look at whether the cross-winds were out of the ordinary (sounds possible if they prevented safe operations), or whether ATC had restrictions in place (these would exempt the airline from compensation). On balance I don't think you'd have a claim.

 

[Himeno]

For EU261, I had a BA flight a few years ago that had the planned aircraft go U/S. They changed aircraft to one inbound from SFO. They refused to check me through to the same ticket, same PNR connecting flight.

The tech delay and their refusal to check through lead to a misconnect, which then lead to a 24 hour delay in reaching my destination.
BA refused to even acknowledge that a claim was possible. The most they said was that a part needed replacing, these things happen, not our problem.

 

[serfty]

...

The tech delay and their refusal to check through lead to a misconnect, which then lead to a 24 hour delay in reaching my destination.
BA refused to even acknowledge that a claim was possible. The most they said was that a part needed replacing, these things happen, not our problem.

That thinking has most definitly been overuled by EU courts.

I think you have 6 years to initiate a claim.

 

[Himeno]

That thinking has most definitly been overuled by EU courts.

I think you have 6 years to initiate a claim.

It happened in Nov 2013. Think I should press them about it again even with their repeated denial of claims throughout 2014?

 

[albatross710]

Weather related would generally only give rise to duty of care in the event your immediate flight is affected by that weather (this would be meals and accommodation as appropriate depending on the length of the delay). There are possible exceptions... for example if the arriving aircraft was affected by weather but the outbound was not, you may have a claim.

I agree I dont think we cannot qualify either. It was quite a mess that day.

We were on Flight C.


3 pm ish Flight A ATH - JTR flew once to JTR, missed approach and returned to ATH, waited, then departed again, returned again to ATH

5pm ish Flight B JTR - ATH pax waiting at JTR for the operating aircraft which had never landed

7pm ish Flight C ATH - JTR pax waiting at ATH for the operating aircraft of Flight A & B being pushed back in 30 minute increments. It was actually impossible that we could have even been close to boarding as the aircraft was two flights behind.

So it would have been a reasonably expensive night of hotels etc for Aegean, 3 x 737 of pax.

Alby