Can you inherit FF points/miles?

[Foreigner]

Can you inherit frequent flier miles? | Stuff.co.nz

Another asset to add to your estate planning checklist.

 

[markis10]

I would not pay too much credence to the article given it's looking at it from the perspective of NZ law.

 

[Foreigner]

I would not pay too much credence to the article given it's looking at it from the perspective of NZ law.

I think ordinarily a claim on miles would be extinguished following death of account holder. An express wish to pass on those miles to someone else would be better.

 

[get me outta here]

Based on my mates experience, it is best to transfer to your trusted 'beneficiary' if you think you're going out with a whimper or a bang, as the points are extinguished upon death. If you then go on to have a late turn around to lead a healthy life you could ask for them to be returned!

I think ordinarily a claim on miles would be extinguished following death of account holder. An express wish to pass on those miles to someone else would be better.

 

[whatmeworry]

I guess it's one of those things we don't think about but most of us have many online accounts and if we died suddenly how would our loved ones be able to access our accounts.

 

[dajop]

Generally it seems most programs have cancellation clauses in event of death of a member. QF, BA, SQ, CX, Avianca LM. There are some clauses that state cancellation, but open it to negotiation (AA, EK) with executor. Of course unless the death occurs whilst travelling on the airline, the airline is not going to know the member is dead until notified, so there is certainly wiggle room if somebody has access to passwords & account numbers and no-one notifies the airline.

Exceptions include VA Velocity (see quote below), US Airways, MH Enrich.

The executors or administrators of a deceased Member’s estate may instruct VRPL to transfer Points to another Membership Account and/or redeem Points associated with the deceased Member’s Membership Account, within 12 months after the Member’s death. If the executors or administrators do not give these instructions within 12 months, all unused Points associated with the Membership Account will be forfeited. Status Credits associated with the Membership Account are personal to the Member and will be forfeited automatically on the death of the Member.

 

[Foreigner]

If points/miles are hoarded with the likes of Amex and Citi, the situation could be very different.

 

[markis10]

If points/miles are hoarded with the likes of Amex and Citi, the situation could be very different.

Amex does not consider points the property of the card holder and does not allow any transfer.

 

[Foreigner]

Amex does not consider points the property of the card holder and does not allow any transfer.

That, for me, would be a serious concern.

 

[deejo77]

My family know not to notify anyone but family.....my will has an attached a4 with every online email, bank, Facebook, AFF, frequent flyer etc with instructions to drain my accounts....churning cards means it is updated regularly.

 

[Foreigner]

My family know not to notify anyone but family.....my will has an attached a4 with every online email, bank, Facebook, AFF, frequent flyer etc with instructions to drain my accounts....churning cards means it is updated regularly.

That's a wise step. I'll do similar myself. Only concern remains of reward accounts with credit providers Amex and Citi. They likely become the first to know when cardholders pass away. The best scenario would be if points could be transferred to FF accounts where they don't expire.

 

[Foreigner]

Amex does not consider points the property of the card holder and does not allow any transfer.

This is from Amex US site:

https://www.americanexpress.com/us/...s/membership-rewards-points-distribution.html

I would like to think that similar applies in Australia.

 

[markis10]

This is from Amex US site:

https://www.americanexpress.com/us/...s/membership-rewards-points-distribution.html

I would like to think that similar applies in Australia.

What happens overseas is irrelevant, different laws. Amex very clearly say no transfers and they are not property.

 

[mrbuskin]

Slightly OT but they can certainly be included in a divorce settlement - I know someone who had >1,000,000 QF points that had to be family transfered over 5 years.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

What happens overseas is irrelevant, different laws. Amex very clearly say no transfers and they are not property.

Law is also potentially irrelevant? If AMEX wanted to allow the transfer of points they could. Unless there is something in AU that says you can't (although even then a company could convert all remaining points in to a voucher or whaever else they wanted to do)

 

[medhead]

Generally it seems most programs have cancellation clauses in event of death of a member. QF, BA, SQ, CX, Avianca LM. There are some clauses that state cancellation, but open it to negotiation (AA, EK) with executor. Of course unless the death occurs whilst travelling on the airline, the airline is not going to know the member is dead until notified, so there is certainly wiggle room if somebody has access to passwords & account numbers and no-one notifies the airline.

Exceptions include VA Velocity (see quote below), US Airways, MH Enrich.

My family know not to notify anyone but family.....my will has an attached a4 with every online email, bank, Facebook, AFF, frequent flyer etc with instructions to drain my accounts....churning cards means it is updated regularly.

That's a wise step. I'll do similar myself. Only concern remains of reward accounts with credit providers Amex and Citi. They likely become the first to know when cardholders pass away. The best scenario would be if points could be transferred to FF accounts where they don't expire.

All fine until the employer contacts the airline to have booking refunded and let's them know the passenger has died. There is a thread around here with an example of this happening.

Slightly OT but they can certainly be included in a divorce settlement - I know someone who had >1,000,000 QF points that had to be family transfered over 5 years.

Which is different to death as the account holder is still alive and hence automatic cancelation would not apply.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

...the airline is not going to know the member is dead until notified, so there is certainly wiggle room if somebody has access to passwords & account numbers and no-one notifies the airline.

And to use the points after the death of a member, where not allowed, could potentially be fraud

 

[medhead]

And to use the points after the death of a member, where not allowed, could potentially be fraud

I think it is all a matter of timing and instruction. If the account holder have a specific direction, while alive, that they want the other person to use the points, then doing so would not misrepresent that use.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I think it is all a matter of timing and instruction. If the account holder have a specific direction, while alive, that they want the other person to use the points, then doing so would not misrepresent that use.

looking at QF for example it says this:

8.3 Membership will terminate automatically on the death of a Member. Qantas Points earned but not yet redeemed or transferred prior to the death of the Member will be cancelled. Qantas Loyalty will close the Member's account on notification of the Member's death. Qantas Loyalty will not be liable for any loss or damage whatsoever suffered by any person as a result of such cancellation.

Unfortunately nothing there about 'wishes of the member'. When the member dies their membership is automatically deemed terminated.

If the member wished their points to be transferred, the argument would be that they should have done so while alive. It is a simple process, and they could even aithorise someone to do it by giving their PIN.

Do I agree with the policy? Should a company have a windfall from the death of a member? Absolutely not. I see no valid reason for it. But could an airline cancel an award ticket/points transfer they suspect was made in contravention of the rules? As they stand, probably yes.

 

[medhead]

looking at QF for example it says this:



Unfortunately nothing there about 'wishes of the member'. When the member dies their membership is automatically deemed terminated.

If the member wished their points to be transferred, the argument would be that they should have done so while alive. It is a simple process, and they could even aithorise someone to do it by giving their PIN.

Do I agree with the policy? Should a company have a windfall from the death of a member? Absolutely not. I see no valid reason for it. But could an airline cancel an award ticket/points transfer they suspect was made in contravention of the rules? As they stand, probably yes.

That is a separate issue to do with automatic cancellation on death of the member. You raised the possibility of fraud following non-notification. If a grieving relative forgets to notify the airline and then uses the points based clear instructions from the member, IMO that should not be considered fraud, especially if someone else is authorized by being given the pin. That doesn't undo the requirements that you've quoted or the possible consequences. But failure to notify and use of the points are separate issues.