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jb747

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I was watching a video with that United twin which had engine issues/parts seperated and was shaking fairly violently on the wing. Also the AirAsia A330 which flew for hours with a vibrating almost ‘jumping’ engine on the wing.

My question is, if the engine gives way and falls off, what happens to the aerodynamics of the aircraft. Would it be expected to just spiral out of control, or is glide still available (although one wing more heavy)
Ah, the Air Asia 330. That was a horrifying bit of video. They flew away from a perfectly acceptable airport (Learmonth), for no good aviation reason.

If the engine is shut down, and just shakes itself off, as long as it doesn’t hit anything on the way, it shouldn’t cause any issue. Be a winner actually, as the ride would smooth out. There’s no reason for any control issues, or problems with gliding. An engine weighs a few tonnes, but that’s trivia in the grand scheme.

The problem would be a pylon failure with an engine running under power. The DC10 at Chicago showed us what can happen there, as it flew forward, and pivoted over the top of the wing, damaging the leading edge as it did so. At that point the aircraft was still flyable, but as the hydraulic fluid leaked out of the system, it allowed the leading edge devices on that wing to retract, and that resulted in loss of control. Knowing what I know now, there was a way of keeping control, but sadly the pilots weren’t to know.
 
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jb747

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Lots of power and lots of rudder?
That's the standard way of recovering from an engine failure, and that's what they did. But the problem was that as the leading edge, on only one wing, retracted, the stall speed of that wing rose dramatically. The recovery would have been to level off and accelerate, to keep that wing from stalling. Once the actual failure sequence was known, pilots did manage to recover in the sim, but if they flew the normal engine out profile, they eventually lost control.
 

Mr H

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The question came up here about environmental impacts of breaking a long journey (MEL-LHR) into two unequal sectors or the same distance in two equal sectors - given the different fuel loads required and the extra fuel required to fly the heavier fuel loads.

So, asking the pilot, does it take more fuel overall to split a journey into two unequal sectors or into two equal sectors?
 

Saab34

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AV how does one squeeze in lunch breaks and so on during these domestic runs. If you have 4 short sectors back to back, you don’t really get a lunch break or so on? I can’t see airline ops adding time during turnaround to give flight crew a lunch break.
 

jb747

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The question came up here about environmental impacts of breaking a long journey (MEL-LHR) into two unequal sectors or the same distance in two equal sectors - given the different fuel loads required and the extra fuel required to fly the heavier fuel loads.

So, asking the pilot, does it take more fuel overall to split a journey into two unequal sectors or into two equal sectors?
Two even sectors will burn less fuel than a short one, and then a long one. The reason is that the increase in burn is not linear with weight. You don't gain enough on the short leg to offset the long one. I did the numbers once, playing with Sydney to London, with two stops vs three. The three stop trip burnt slightly less fuel than the two stop, even though it had to account for another climb. Other costs, such as airport, and wear and tear, may mean that there is no $ saving though. On the other hand, there's a large gain in cargo capacity. AJ's dream ULR flights may have many advantages, but fuel efficiency isn't one of them.

It's a similar equation if you look at radius of action, with some wind vs none. Even though half of the journey will get a tail wind, it never balances out.
 

AviatorInsight

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AV how does one squeeze in lunch breaks and so on during these domestic runs. If you have 4 short sectors back to back, you don’t really get a lunch break or so on? I can’t see airline ops adding time during turnaround to give flight crew a lunch break.
Nope. No planned lunch break. You eat in the cruise. So you get good at eating quickly and tolerate the airline catering especially when you’re on the same pattern and have the same thing every day.

Although, when they don’t load any meals during meal windows I’ll have no hesitation in going into the terminal to buy food. Even if that means delaying the flight.
 

Saab34

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Are you allowed to bring your own food and just forget eating all that airline cough? I’m a weightlifter (ie v specific diet), no way I could eat any of that stuff. Can you bring like refrigerated food and fruits etc?
 

jb747

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Are you allowed to bring your own food and just forget eating all that airline cough? I’m a weightlifter (ie v specific diet), no way I could eat any of that stuff. Can you bring like refrigerated food and fruits etc?
You can take the same things through security that the passengers can. But, there’s never any guarantee of refrigeration being available.
 

AviatorInsight

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Are you allowed to bring your own food and just forget eating all that airline cough? I’m a weightlifter (ie v specific diet), no way I could eat any of that stuff. Can you bring like refrigerated food and fruits etc?
Yes absolutely. The problem becomes storage. The fridges are tiny on the 737 so if all of the crew were taking food on it gets cramped very quickly. Next is the problem of taking enough food that won’t go off for a 4 day trip.

Finally is the problem of leaving containers on the aircraft after you’ve forgotten to eat them and then have multiple aircraft swaps during the day. Someone out there would have enjoyed plenty of my lasagne floating around the country.
 

Flying Fox

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I just read under another topic that some B737's can't fly international because they don't have life rafts. Makes sense to me but what happen for the crew when the VA B737 had to be flown to HK for maintenance?
 

Saab34

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JB what’s storage like for food on the A380? I’d imagine the opposite of being cramped? Do you have your own fridge in the coughpit?
 

kelvedon

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I just read under another topic that some B737's can't fly international because they don't have life rafts. Makes sense to me but what happen for the crew when the VA B737 had to be flown to HK for maintenance?
I’m surprised if that’s the case, So these planes can’t fly to Tasmania, or even take off south from SYD ?

Edit: this is from the CASA website

Life rafts​

When to carry​

Life rafts shall be in addition to the life jackets required for the flight.

An aircraft that is flown over water at a distance from land greater than the permitted distance* must carry, as part of its emergency and lifesaving equipment, sufficient life rafts to provide a place in a life raft for each person on board the aircraft (CAO 20.11 para 5.2).

*The permitted distance is a distance equal to 30 minutes at normal cruising speed, or 100 nm, whichever is the least (CAO 20.11 para 5.2.1.1 (b)).
 

straitman

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I just read under another topic that some B737's can't fly international because they don't have life rafts. Makes sense to me but what happen for the crew when the VA B737 had to be flown to HK for maintenance?
In a normal world (No Covid) they fly to NZ, Fiji/Pacific Islands and I have even caught a QF 737 from PER-SIN.
ie there are life raft options.
 

AviatorInsight

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When I was a student, we used to put milk in carrier bags and hang them outside our windows in lieu of a fridge. Now, I know most planes have coughpit windows that open. Couldn't you just pop your lunch in a carrier bag and dangle it outside the coughpit window until you feel peckish?
I did find my own make shift fridge in the flight deck. The window tracks are solid metal and get quite cold. Perfect to cool down chocolate or cheese.

Then the oven becomes the dash. Perfect for melting the rock solid butter.
 

AviatorInsight

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I just read under another topic that some B737's can't fly international because they don't have life rafts. Makes sense to me but what happen for the crew when the VA B737 had to be flown to HK for maintenance?
Because that is not a scheduled or charter service, no life rafts are required.
I’m surprised if that’s the case, So these planes can’t fly to Tasmania, or even take off south from SYD ?

Edit: this is from the CASA website

Life rafts​

When to carry​

Life rafts shall be in addition to the life jackets required for the flight.

An aircraft that is flown over water at a distance from land greater than the permitted distance* must carry, as part of its emergency and lifesaving equipment, sufficient life rafts to provide a place in a life raft for each person on board the aircraft (CAO 20.11 para 5.2).

*The permitted distance is a distance equal to 30 minutes at normal cruising speed, or 100 nm, whichever is the least (CAO 20.11 para 5.2.1.1 (b)).
This is correct, which is why for scheduled and charter flights anytime we are more than 400nm from land, life rafts are required. We operate under an operations manual (approved by CASA).

Even if we were bound to the 100nm limit, all Tasmania flights would have to fly near King Island and then onto Melbourne. It’s just too impractical. Hence why the CAOs in this regard do not apply.

If you want to know which VA aircraft are configured with life rafts it’s all the YI* series. I being for international.
 
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Saab34

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Are your 737 and A380 coughpit seats electric? I noticed on a A320 once the pilots adjusting it with a control panel.
 

jb747

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JB what’s storage like for food on the A380? I’d imagine the opposite of being cramped? Do you have your own fridge in the coughpit?
There's nothing in the coughpit that doesn't need to be there. So, no fridge. Or BBQ.
Are your 737 and A380 coughpit seats electric? I noticed on a A320 once the pilots adjusting it with a control panel.
380 and 747 (at least the later ones) were fully electric. 767 and earlier 747 were partially electric, with only the sliding of the seat being manual.
 

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