Ask The Pilot

two alternate subjects:
Setting sun - flying west in the late afternoon well above the clouds must place a great strain on a the eyes due to glare. What measures are available (other than a good pair of sun glasses) to reduce the glare. Is it possible to black out the windscreen altogether? Do flight crew develop eye problems over time?
Landing - a while back I remember reading about a Qantas directive for pilots to use brakes rather than reverse thrust because brake pads were cheaper than fuel at the time. Is this still the case? Conversely I have experienced landings where the aircraft is allowed to simply coast down the runway with only a very light touch of the brakes as the exit taxiway approaches. Qantas will be pleased!
 
two alternate subjects:
Setting sun - flying west in the late afternoon well above the clouds must place a great strain on a the eyes due to glare. What measures are available (other than a good pair of sun glasses) to reduce the glare. Is it possible to black out the windscreen altogether? Do flight crew develop eye problems over time?

We do have a sun visor that is able to be moved around but I find that the best things are the checklist or The Australian over the windshield that work quite well.

Landing - a while back I remember reading about a Qantas directive for pilots to use brakes rather than reverse thrust because brake pads were cheaper than fuel at the time. Is this still the case? Conversely I have experienced landings where the aircraft is allowed to simply coast down the runway with only a very light touch of the brakes as the exit taxiway approaches. Qantas will be pleased!

For the B737 at QF I know guys are not allowed to use Flap40 unless operationally required. At Virgin we’re encouraged to use whatever means necessary. If reverse thrust is available, it must be selected. All of our B737s now have carbon brakes. Guys are still getting used to them because they don’t realise they have to warm up first to be effective, so all of a sudden they’re applying pressure and they’ll heat up extremely quick and just grab, unfortunately forcing you into the seat in front.
 
Setting sun - flying west in the late afternoon well above the clouds must place a great strain on a the eyes due to glare. What measures are available (other than a good pair of sun glasses) to reduce the glare. Is it possible to black out the windscreen altogether? Do flight crew develop eye problems over time?
Sunglasses don't work all that well. Not only do they darken the image outside the coughpit, but they do so inside as well. Polarised are especially useless, because they turn many of the displays black. All of the airliners that I've flown have had some form of sun screen that can either be pulled down or across windows (the Airbus), or clipped over them (Boeing). I don't know of any eye problems specific to the industry...other than getting older and ending up with a bag full of prescription specs. Those of us who have been around a long time, fondly remember the liners that used to be used on the meal trays. They would take a static charge, and would then stick to the windows.

Landing - a while back I remember reading about a Qantas directive for pilots to use brakes rather than reverse thrust because brake pads were cheaper than fuel at the time. Is this still the case? Conversely I have experienced landings where the aircraft is allowed to simply coast down the runway with only a very light touch of the brakes as the exit taxiway approaches. Qantas will be pleased!

I don't know of any directives in place at the moment. There is a 'green operating procedures' section in the flight manuals, and that covers many topics. None of it is mandatory.

The use of brakes, reverse thrust, and flap selections, is quite a dynamic process. There are reasons for using just about any combination of them that you can imagine. Less flap is the Airbus recommendation in gusty conditions. More flap on shorter runways. Reverse thrust makes appreciable noise, and its use is controlled at many airports, at various times of the day. Braking is used as needed. There is very little point to landing on 34L in Sydney, and stopping in a hurry. If ATC allow, rolling the full length of the runway is the best option. Braking puts heat into the brakes. Sometimes huge amounts. If the aircraft has to depart again in 45-60 minutes, hot brakes will be a restriction.

Tomorrow morning I'll be landing at Melbourne, on either 16 or 34. The landing will most likely use full flap and full reverse. The autobrake will be armed for the landing, but will be disconnected at touchdown. There will be no braking at all until about 80 knots, when there will be one fairly solid application to slow us for the turnoff. Done properly, that will result in brake temps of under 200º. Use of heavier braking would get us off the runway sooner, but the resultant temperatures can be quite limiting...to the point that they can delay subsequent departures.

Reverse thrust....this has been discussed previously, but it does very little other than make the passengers feel good. It is effective on a wet runway, as it tends to blow the water away, allowing the brakes to work better. In itself though, it doesn't do much. There is precious little actual 'reverse' thrust, though it does cancel an engine's residual forward thrust. Limiting its use, does save a little fuel, but more importantly, saves a bit of engine life. So, whilst it will always be selected, it will only be pulled to higher power settings when needed.
 
Normally sunlight has light waves in many different planes. When sunlight hits a horizontal surface, horizontally polarised light is reflected while perpendicularly light is absorbed. Polaroids block these horizontally polarised light.

Many LCD screens are polarised so they block perpendicular (p) light waves but let through horizontally polarised - these are useless with Polaroid sunnies

Some LCD screens polarise at 45 deg. So even with polarising sunglasses you can see something although not as bright.

Why LCD manufacturers are unable to turn their screens 90 deg so horizontal light waves out of the screen are blocked just like Polaroids I don’t know.
 
Why LCD manufacturers are unable to turn their screens 90 deg so horizontal light waves out of the screen are blocked just like Polaroids I don’t know.

They can't work out how not to put dangerous, identical, switches next to each other.....so that would be a leap too far.

The only sunnies I've ever had that did work well in coughpits were the non polarised Serengetis. I never bother now...
 
So using flaps and drag to slow a landed aircraft down. If no reverse and MEL was infinitely long how much distance do you need to safely exit at MEL without brakes?

And how much runway if no flaps, no brakes, and no reverse?
 
So using flaps and drag to slow a landed aircraft down. If no reverse and MEL was infinitely long how much distance do you need to safely exit at MEL without brakes?

And how much runway if no flaps, no brakes, and no reverse?

Flaps provide a bit of drag, but their main reason for being is to increase the camber of the wing, and allow slower speeds. The overall effect of aerodynamic drag decreases with speed, and is relatively ineffective at slow speed. The aircraft wheels/tyres provide a huge amount of braking. I once read an report on the 747-200, which basically stated that the mechanical losses through the landing gear amounted to around 12,000 lbs...so greater effect than reverse thrust.

In the scenario you offer the aircraft would basically never stop. You'd need at least idle reverse to cancel the residual forward thrust of the engines...after all we taxi at up to 30 knots using just idle.

Once you get below about 100 knots, the aerodynamics are finished for the day. Then you use the brakes as required for your selected exit.
 
Reverse thrust....this has been discussed previously, but it does very little other than make the passengers feel good.
Obviously this observation is made by someone on the flight deck. As a frequent passenger on B737 and on A320/1 I can attest to the fact that the effect of reverse thrust in the passenger cabin can be horrific. If heavily applied the whole fuselage shakes and rattles and the roar emitted from the engines whose thrust is being deflected forward makes the Niagara Falls sound like a leaking tap. My preference is for a long runway with a decent head wind.
 
Last edited:
Use of heavier braking would get us off the runway sooner, but the resultant temperatures can be quite limiting...to the point that they can delay subsequent departures.

You need a pit crew, by the sounds of it...

F1 Brake Cooling.jpg
 
The Frequent Flyer Concierge team takes the hard work out of finding reward seat availability. Using their expert knowledge and specialised tools, they'll help you book a great trip that maximises the value for your points.

AFF Supporters can remove this and all advertisements

My prediction on this mornings landing was full flap, full reverse. As it turned out, the met man failed to predict the thunderstorms that he added to the forecast about 14 hours after it would have been useful.... The choice was 27 with a wind of about 280/20-36...or 34. I chose 34. By the time I actually got to the flare, the wind was about 020 at about 20.

The touchdown was ok, but a tad more solid than really necessary. Idle reverse. Zero braking until 80 knots. Highest temperature at the gate under 200º.
 
Sponsored Post

Struggling to use your Frequent Flyer Points?

Frequent Flyer Concierge takes the hard work out of finding award availability and redeeming your frequent flyer or credit card points for flights.

Using their expert knowledge and specialised tools, the Frequent Flyer Concierge team at Frequent Flyer Concierge will help you book a great trip that maximises the value for your points.

Why 34 and not 27?

It will be very rare to see a 380 land on 27. Basically it won't happen unless the crosswind actually exceeds the limits. Because the wind was gusty, we look at the maximum for the crosswind (which was under the limit), but the minimum for calculating the landing distance. So, using 20 knots on 27, that gave a margin of about 100 metres, using full reverse and reasonably heavy braking. Not much margin and very hot brakes.

The actual wind that existed by the time we landed would have given some tailwind on 27, and would have forced a go around.
 
JB,

I’ve seen a few videos recently on different UAL 744 (now retired) landings where spoilers were not deployed at any time during the landing. Could this possibly be an approved company procedure given certain conditions?
 
I’ve seen a few videos recently on different UAL 744 (now retired) landings where spoilers were not deployed at any time during the landing. Could this possibly be an approved company procedure given certain conditions?

Can you point me to one of these videos...

There is no upside to landing without the spoilers, and a lot of negatives. It doesn't cost anything, and doesn't use anything up. If anything it reduces brake wear.

The spoilers do provide some extra drag during the landing, but their real function is given by their name. They're there to 'spoil' the lift being produced by the wing. You could easily have something in the order of 100,000 lbs of lift still being produced by the wing, and that's weight that isn't on the wheels. Braking effectiveness is reduced dramatically.

In the 767 there was a theory that the landings were smoother without the auto speed brakes armed...but that does not apply to the 747. Even if they are not armed, they will deploy when reverse is selected.

The panels used as ground spoilers have three different functions. On the ground, they all extend to their full extension as 'ground spoilers'. In flight, a few panels may be used asymmetrically, for roll control. And some of the panels can be extended symmetrically as speed brakes.
 
Interesting.

This is a quote from the manual....
When the Speedbrake lever is in ARMED position, thrust levers 1 and 3 are near the closed position, and the main landing gear touch down, the Speedbrake lever is driven to UP position, extending all spoiler panels.

If the Speedbrake lever is in DN position with the main gear on the ground and thrust levers 1 and 3 near the closed position, and reverse thrust levers 2 or 4 are pulled up to idle detent, the Speedbrake lever is raised out of DN detent and driven to UP position. This provides an automatic ground spoiler function for RTO and provides a backup automatic ground spoiler function for landing when the Speedbrake lever is not armed during approach.

There is no advantage to it....especially as the only way you can stop them from rising at all, is to have them disarmed, and to then not select even idle reverse.
 
Because the wind was gusty, we look at the maximum for the crosswind (which was under the limit), but the minimum for calculating the landing distance. So, using 20 knots on 27, that gave a margin of about 100 metres, using full reverse and reasonably heavy braking. Not much margin and very hot brakes.
In this case you chose runway 34, not surprising since it is 1,371 metres longer. do you do these sort of calculations for every landing, did you actually do the calculation for 27 to get the results that you refer to?
 
In this case you chose runway 34, not surprising since it is 1,371 metres longer. do you do these sort of calculations for every landing, did you actually do the calculation for 27 to get the results that you refer to?

Yes, we did....and I would have taken 27 if the excess had been over 300 metres. We don't have to do them for all landings, but they'll be run for the vast majority. A long, destination runway, with a headwind will always be ok. But if we elect not to use reverse, or it's wet, or tailwind, or simply a runway we don't know..... We have it as a computer and IOS application, so it really doesn't take any effort to check.
 

Enhance your AFF viewing experience!!

From just $6 we'll remove all advertisements so that you can enjoy a cleaner and uninterupted viewing experience.

And you'll be supporting us so that we can continue to provide this valuable resource :)


Sample AFF with no advertisements? More..

Staff online

Back
Top