Ask The Pilot

[Quickstatus]

Windsock:

In approach into MEL yesterday the windsock was lifted into horizontal position by the wind

Is there a rough guide to interpretation of wind speed and windsock position.

Is the windsock a relic of the past when flying in digital fly by computer aircraft?

 

[andmiz]

Is there a rough guide to interpretation of wind speed and windsock position.

Is the windsock a relic of the past when flying in digital fly by computer aircraft?

They still serve a useful purpose, as while we're given wind information from the tower with takeoff and landing clearances, the source of that data could be a distance away from the runway in use, or can vary due to localised conditions. The windsock is a good visual confirmation of the reported conditions, provides an easy angular comparison for crosswind, and can quickly identify gusty conditions. The wind data displayed in the coughpit requires forward momentum to operate, so won't indicate anything stationary on the ground.

From wikipedia:

a 15-knot (28 km/h; 17 mph) wind will fully extend the wind sock, a 10-knot (19 km/h; 12 mph) wind will cause the wind sock to be 5° below the horizontal, a 6-knot (11 km/h; 6.9 mph) wind will cause the wind sock to be 30° below the horizontal.

 

[jb747]

Interesting observation yesterday with QF93 and QF35.

One was very late and the other slight so.
However it seems that the last despatch task was to refuel. While refuelling the aerobridges were still connected and this is a normal safety precaution. On QF35 at least this seemed the last task as the cargo doors were reported closed by the captain and we were waiting for refuelling to be completed.

A question from an uninformed position: could not the refuelling take place earlier in the despatch and aid in the ontime departure? Perhaps final weight and fuel requirements are not known until just before departure. I understand that on long and ultra long haul flights the weight might have to be adjusted - fuel or freight...

It's difficult to say exactly why an individual flight would be delayed by refuelling. On long haul ops it's normally ordered about 50 minutes prior to departure. Quite often the engineers will start it refuelling anyway, but to a target about 30% less than is normally ordered. If we are very limited on a flight, we may remain plugged in, to allow a last minute adjustment for any reduction in passengers or cargo. It takes about 10 minutes from the completion of the loading for the paperwork to be done, and the doors to be closed....so normally we want it done by about 15 minutes to run. The earlier the flight is 'closed' to passenger loading, the earlier we'll get an accurate zero fuel weight, and can give a final fuel figure.

 

[jb747]

Is the windsock a relic of the past when flying in digital fly by computer aircraft?

We'll often look for it on departure, especially if we're doing a performance limited take off, to make sure that the wind at least looks like whatever we used for the calculations.

And, if you can't see it, then it's foggy. If it's wet, then it's raining. And if it's missing there some nasty winds....

 

[Boca68]

<snip>
And, if you can't see it, then it's foggy. If it's wet, then it's raining. And if it's missing there some nasty winds....

I'm detecting a slightly dry sense of humour there. Or is that Pilot 101?

 

[TomVexille]

We'll often look for it on departure, especially if we're doing a performance limited take off, to make sure that the wind at least looks like whatever we used for the calculations.

And, if you can't see it, then it's foggy. If it's wet, then it's raining. And if it's missing there some nasty winds....

Sounds a bit like the weather rock...

 

[Boris spatsky]

It's difficult to say exactly why an individual flight would be delayed by refuelling. On long haul ops it's normally ordered about 50 minutes prior to departure. Quite often the engineers will start it refuelling anyway, but to a target about 30% less than is normally ordered. If we are very limited on a flight, we may remain plugged in, to allow a last minute adjustment for any reduction in passengers or cargo. It takes about 10 minutes from the completion of the loading for the paperwork to be done, and the doors to be closed....so normally we want it done by about 15 minutes to run. The earlier the flight is 'closed' to passenger loading, the earlier we'll get an accurate zero fuel weight, and can give a final fuel figure.

In short haul, the fuel truck rocks up about 20 minutes before departure as we commence loading passengers. We have no control over the contracted fuelers, other than being able to ring them to chase them up. If they are busy, then tough luck. They are normally great if you are on schedule; once you are late though, it is completely hit and miss. It is not uncommon to get a delay whilst waiting for fuel.

 

[Hvr]

Sounds a bit like the weather rock...

With a string?

 

[TomVexille]

With a string?

Yes

 

[straitman]

They still serve a useful purpose, as while we're given wind information from the tower with takeoff and landing clearances, the source of that data could be a distance away from the runway in use, or can vary due to localised conditions. The windsock is a good visual confirmation of the reported conditions, provides an easy angular comparison for crosswind, and can quickly identify gusty conditions. The wind data displayed in the coughpit requires forward momentum to operate, so won't indicate anything stationary on the ground.

From wikipedia:

a 15-knot (28 km/h; 17 mph) wind will fully extend the wind sock, a 10-knot (19 km/h; 12 mph) wind will cause the wind sock to be 5° below the horizontal, a 6-knot (11 km/h; 6.9 mph) wind will cause the wind sock to be 30° below the horizontal.

There are different classes of wind socks. i.e. they are not all 15kts fully extended. There are a variety of sizes that that extend differently per their ratings.

 

[Boris spatsky]

There are different classes of wind socks. i.e. they are not all 15kts fully extended. There are a variety of sizes that that extend differently per their ratings.

Yes, i was caught out once using a US military windsock rated to 25 knots. Whoops... Only found out after a query to the tower.

 

[Quickstatus]

In short haul, the fuel truck rocks up about 20 minutes before departure as we commence loading passengers. We have no control over the contracted fuelers, other than being able to ring them to chase them up. If they are busy, then tough luck. They are normally great if you are on schedule; once you are late though, it is completely hit and miss. It is not uncommon to get a delay whilst waiting for fuel.

WhTs the underground fuel infrastructure?. Tanks for each gate?. Pipes from a central tank somewhere?. And how does the fuel get there ?

 

[Boris spatsky]

WhTs the underground fuel infrastructure?. Tanks for each gate?. Pipes from a central tank somewhere?. And how does the fuel get there ?

Major airports have in ground refuelling. Smaller airports including Hobart and Canberra have truck only.

With the underground refuelling, all aerobridge gates seem to have a connection point. I assume the main tanks are underground.

 

[Anna]

My question for Ask The Pilot is - I'm flying QF MEL - LAX late Aug and LAX - BNE early Sep, might you be flying the plane?

 

[jb747]

My question for Ask The Pilot is - I'm flying QF MEL - LAX late Aug and LAX - BNE early Sep, might you be flying the plane?

My roster for the next couple of months is here: http://www.australianfrequentflyer....sion/ask-the-pilot-30478-970.html#post1476225

Basically, no LAs in August, only London. LAX-BNE is a 747, not 380, so it's never me. I haven't operated to Brisbane since 2004!

 

[Cruiser Elite]

Bummer - we are on 93 Sep 20 - was hoping you would be driving jb747.

 

[747sp]

In Sydney the fuel is stored above ground between airport drive and qantas freight terminal near the international terminal. In Melbourne it is stored above ground near Marker Road.

 

[Anna]

Basically, no LAs in August, only London. LAX-BNE is a 747, not 380, so it's never me. I haven't operated to Brisbane since 2004!

Disappointed It would have been interesting to see if we've worked in any of the same WGs/SQNs. Of course my involvement in WG/SQN affairs is generally DFDA related

 

[Boris spatsky]

In Sydney the fuel is stored above ground between airport drive and qantas freight terminal near the international terminal. In Melbourne it is stored above ground near Marker Road.

I assumed they were the holding tanks that feed the underground main tanks. I might ask a refueller!

 

[jb747]

In post #9697 I put up my latest roster. I mention that one of the trips was likely to be swapped. As it turns out, I can't swap it, as it will cause hours issues on the last LA flight. So, the roster will be as originally released...until scheduling decide to muck with it.